Hedge (now trees) at end of cul-de-sac next to undmade road

Hedge (now trees) at end of cul-de-sac next to undmade road

Postby HateLeylandii » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:09 pm

Hello all
The houses in our road were built by developer in early 1970s. The road is a cul-de-sac which the Council wished to ensure was a no-through road and made the developer turn it into a turning circle, put in concrete posts, lamppost, wooden fence panels, and plant a leylandii hedge. The turning circle backs onto an unmade road. The strip of land only contains lamppost, electrical cables, concrete posts, wooden fence panels and leylandii hedge.

This hedge is now some 30 metres high - no-one has maintained this over the last 30 odd years apart from the local council removing the lower branches to a height of about six foot as the branches were encroaching into the cul-de-sac and making it difficult to actually turn vehicles. And the roadsweeper visiting every month or so.

The wooden fence has now disintegrated, having been broken by the hedge now becoming fully fledged fat tree trunks.

The problem is that no-one owns the land and no-one will cut these trees down - they are robbing the light from the road, and dropping branches and we all hate them.

What can we do. The council say they will only do something if a health and safety risk - hmmm, my aged mother broke her foot three years ago "tidying up" under these trees.

Thank you for reading this.
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Re: Hedge (now trees) at end of cul-de-sac next to undmade r

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:04 pm

Hi HL,

The problem is that no-one owns the land

Yes they do, but you know it's not you.

and no-one will cut these trees down

Does anyone need to?

they are robbing the light from the road

the road doesn't have light to rob.

dropping branches

that's what trees do.

and we all hate them

fair enough (I would too).

What can we do

try and trace the owner
if you exhaust all avenues, hire someone to fell a single tree and wait for a reaction

The council say they will only do something if a health and safety risk

sounds reasonable

mother broke her foot three years ago "tidying up" under these trees

does she own the land under the trees?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Hedge (now trees) at end of cul-de-sac next to undmade r

Postby Janieb » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:49 pm

Would the high hedge law help?
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Re: Hedge (now trees) at end of cul-de-sac next to undmade r

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:02 pm

Janieb wrote:Would the high hedge law help?

Hi Janieb,

In what sense?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Hedge (now trees) at end of cul-de-sac next to undmade r

Postby arborlad » Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:19 pm

HateLeylandii wrote:Hello all
The houses in our road were built by developer in early 1970s.



Unless there's any evidence to the contrary, the most likely owner of that land, and the trees, will be the developer.
arborlad

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Re: Hedge (now trees) at end of cul-de-sac next to undmade r

Postby HateLeylandii » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

Thanks for your responses, but we have not been able to track down the developer: even the person who sold the land to the developer has died, so the chances are the developer has died too. No-one appears to own the land, or to maintain the trees or the fencing.

So if no-one owns it, are the people living in the road who have used the road for the past 40 years entitled to claim rights over this patch of land, and then we can do what we would like with the hedge trees? There is no preservation order on the leylandii although there are POs on other trees in our road. We all maintain our trees so it seems rather unfair that these "orphans" are left to grow to huge heights without due care and/or attention.

No, my mother does not own the trees but she feels duty bound to keep the area looking as good as possible (she is of that generation).

It is an idea about removing one tree but what is the absolute worst that could happen if the neighbours decided as a group and arranged for all the trees to be removed completely?

HateLeylandii
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Re: Hedge (now trees) at end of cul-de-sac next to undmade r

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:07 pm

Hi HL,

So if no-one owns it

But someone does...

are the people living in the road who have used the road for the past 40 years entitled to claim rights over this patch of land, and then we can do what we would like with the hedge trees?

in a word, no.

what is the absolute worst that could happen if the neighbours decided as a group and arranged for all the trees to be removed completely?

why not do the hard part first - getting EVERYONE in agreement that the trees MUST go (that includes those who own land beyond the trees).

Kind regards, Mac
PS chopping one down will help to quickly establish any opposition
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Re: Hedge (now trees) at end of cul-de-sac next to undmade r

Postby Brainsey » Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:02 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:PS chopping one down will help to quickly establish any opposition

True, but then that opposition could prevent the other trees being felled. Chopping them all down could establish the same opposition but all the trees would be gone!

Of course I'm not advocating or suggesting such action. No, definitely not.
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Re: Hedge (now trees) at end of cul-de-sac next to undmade r

Postby HateLeylandii » Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:15 pm

Thanks, again for replies.

Every one of the 12 houses in our street would like them gone.

The other side of the "hedge" / trees is an unmade road.

Beyond that is a turning circle for deliveries to small business (I believe land the other side of that is leased from local estate).

Anyone want to have some free timber?!!!!
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Re: Hedge (now trees) at end of cul-de-sac next to undmade r

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:34 pm

Hi Brainsey,

that opposition could prevent the other trees being felled.

Indeed.
However, IMHO the likelihood that said opposition will come from the only party with authority to prevent the other trees being felled (the owner) is remote.
I still advocate the 'one tree first' approach to give the owner a chance to step forward and engage with the 12 neighbours.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Hedge (now trees) at end of cul-de-sac next to undmade r

Postby arborlad » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:14 am

HateLeylandii wrote: The road is a cul-de-sac which the Council wished to ensure was a no-through road and made the developer turn it into a turning circle, put in concrete posts, lamppost, wooden fence panels, and plant a leylandii hedge. The turning circle backs onto an unmade road. The strip of land only contains lamppost, electrical cables, concrete posts, wooden fence panels and leylandii hedge.



Is there a possibility that with the removal of the trees that the Councils original desire would not be realised?

How many trees are there, selective thinning might be a better option, but unlikely with leylandii.

Any felling would have to wait until the nesting season is over.
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Re: Hedge (now trees) at end of cul-de-sac next to undmade r

Postby FrTed » Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:47 am

As a collective, why not price up the cost of felling & removal of the trees, and then replacement of the fence with a new close boarded or similar item.

That way the street would remain a no through road.

The planted area can be tidied up and cheap shrubs such as forsythia and flowering blackcurrant planted ( £1 each from Poundland at the moment) which eventually would form a dense hedge, but wont tower like the leylandi (probably chosen because they are fast growing and cheap).

I personally couldnt see the land owner having too much to argue with if the fence was replaced and the land maintained and planted. Well he could I suppose, but quite whether there would be any milage taking it further with legal action against the residents is debatable.

I think the difficulty here is forming a collective and having everyone agree to pay a share of the costs involved in felling the trees and replacing the fence.

Good luck whatever course of action you choose.
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Re: Hedge (now trees) at end of cul-de-sac next to undmade r

Postby HateLeylandii » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:28 pm

Response from local council:

"There are no planning restrictions on work that can be carried out on the trees you refer to.
I am afraid that I have no record of who owns the trees. I can confirm that they are not in the ownership of XYZ District Council. I have passed on the details of your enquiry to XYZ County Council Highways Department just in case they have any responsibility for the trees. I'm sorry I can't be more help.
Yours sincerely
nnn
Arboricultural officer"

* * *
Thank you for your suggestions: My thinking was also along the lines of cutting the >15 leylandii to a trunk height of about four feet so still constitutes a barrier (and cheaper than grinding out the stumps, and having to replace concrete posts and wooden panels), and then planting shrubs between the new "dragon's teeth" to create a natural-looking pretty hedge effect. Forsythia and blackcurrant sound a great mix. And hopefully good for local birdlife too.
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Re: Hedge (now trees) at end of cul-de-sac next to undmade r

Postby TO » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:28 pm

Hi

MacadamB53 wrote:chopping one down will help to quickly establish any opposition
,
Brainsey wrote:True, but then that opposition could prevent the other trees being felled. Chopping them all down could establish the same opposition but all the trees would be gone! Of course I'm not advocating or suggesting such action. No, definitely not.


How about putting up a notice syaing that I [NAME AND CONTACT DETILS] intend to fell the trees [LOCATION OF TREES]. Would the owner or anyone else with an interest in the land come forward by [DATE] to discuss the felling of the trees, and disposal of arisings. I will carry out the above mentioned works works and dispose of the arisings if I have not received any communication from the owner after the above date.

FrTed wrote:I personally couldnt see the land owner having too much to argue with if the fence was replaced and the land maintained and planted. Well he could I suppose, but quite whether there would be any milage taking it further with legal action against the residents is debatable.
You live a sheltered life Fr Ted. I know several people who would, if it was their land, argue. They would not hesitate to drag you through the Courts just because they can, and the solicitors and barristers they retain need to earn their keep. For some people money is no object, they will persue the most petty of complaints, and the Courts are a second home.

arborlad wrote:Any felling would have to wait until the nesting season is over.
Nope. As long as you do not disturb nesting birds you can do the work at any time.

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Re: Hedge (now trees) at end of cul-de-sac next to undmade r

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:41 pm

Hi TO,

How about putting up a notice syaing that I [NAME AND CONTACT DETILS] intend to fell the trees [LOCATION OF TREES]. Would the owner or anyone else with an interest in the land come forward by [DATE] to discuss the felling of the trees, and disposal of arisings. I will carry out the above mentioned works works and dispose of the arisings if I have not received any communication from the owner after the above date.

Or just fell all the trees in one go and say you put a notice up weeks ago (joke).

The truth is the legal owner probably doesn't live in the area and doesn't visit either.

Kind regards, Mac
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