IS IT ALWAYS THE MIDDLE?

IS IT ALWAYS THE MIDDLE?

Postby hethmar » Sun May 01, 2005 9:11 pm

Could someone in the know please tell me how you measure your garden width if you have hedges both sides?

The deeds show we are responsible for the hedge to our left but if you want to measure the width of your garden do you measure from the centre of the left hand hedge or from the far side in your neighbours garden please?
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Postby despair » Sun May 01, 2005 9:13 pm

I would expect it to be middle of the hedge to middle of the middle of the other however one hedge may have been trimmed furthur back than another so the main stems line would be more like it

I guess it really depends on what species is planted
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Re: IS IT ALWAYS THE MIDDLE?

Postby Maverick.uk » Sun May 01, 2005 10:33 pm

hethmar wrote:Could someone in the know please tell me how you measure your garden width if you have hedges both sides?

The deeds show we are responsible for the hedge to our left but if you want to measure the width of your garden do you measure from the centre of the left hand hedge or from the far side in your neighbours garden please?


This is notoriously difficult. First things first, what do your deeds say?

Secondly most properties in the UK come under the general boundaries rule therefore on a scale of 1:1250 your boundary on the ground could be plus minus 8".

What is your problem?

Regards

Mav
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Postby Beech » Sun May 01, 2005 10:54 pm

Measure from roots to roots.
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Postby Maverick.uk » Mon May 02, 2005 7:14 pm

Beech wrote:Measure from roots to roots.


Not neccessarily, the hedge may have been planted totally within the bounds of a propoerty allowing for growth. What do your deeds say.

Regards

Mav
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Postby Beech » Mon May 02, 2005 7:56 pm

Maverick.uk wrote:Not neccessarily, the hedge may have been planted totally within the bounds of a propoerty allowing for growth. What do your deeds say.

Good point!
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Postby hethmar » Thu May 05, 2005 6:27 pm

Hi, thanks for your replies.

Thats the whole problem really. This was a plot of land on farmland bought in 1947. The deeds show a T to the left hand - "erect a stock-proof boundary hedge".

The other side of the garden the hedge was also planted in 1947 by the one previous owner - we have been told this by the neighbour to the right and various others and we have always maintained it (for last 13 years), including removing fallen trees (during a gale) from next doors garden.

Heres the rub - dear neighbour dies after living next door from 1958 - 1994. Executors sell house to NFH and I come home to find 10 feet of our 300 ft hedge gone - right next to our rear patio and the back trop to a raised garden - just a gap through to next door and a man still at it.

Stop man, he tells me owner needs to remove the hedge for planned extension and anyway he hates trees.

Now in hands of solicitors. NFH shows me a 1952 ordnance survey plan of the plot next door when first bought (5 years after mine). Says 44ft wide. NFH says he has measured 44ft from the short wall between him and neighbour otherside and said 44ft comes right to the base of our hedge, so it is his, so he is removing it.

We have measured from the other side of the hedge of our left hand neighbour the 45ft shown on our deeds and it goes well past the hedge.

We are booking a land registry measurement (currently they show 40ft for NFH's garden width and it seems the neighbours garden the other side of him has grown since the 1952 plan - which he has chosen not to note as the intended extension is our side). He insists the short wall other side of his garden which is in same brick as the house the other side is his "fixed point" and therefore he is correct in saying we have stolen part of his garden.

I just wanted to treble check that our 45ft width well take in the hedge before the surveyor arrives!
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Postby hethmar » Fri May 06, 2005 9:19 pm

I would be grateful for replies please.

Today, an awful day. The solicitor rang at lunch time and said he had seen the NFH deed and his garden was only 40 ft wide. I was in tears (literally) with relief. Rang rellies and told them good news, hedge saved.

Half an hour later solicitor at door, "Sorry, I misread it, it is 44" wide at front, narrowing to 38.5 ft at very end (340ft)".

So what do I do now? Feel total despair. If NFH comes with a chain saw because his 43ft comes to the base of our hedge, is there nothing I can do now?

Does anyone know how difficult Possessionary Title is to get? We have tended the hedge and cut it, removed fallen trees that went into next doors garden, everyone has acknowledged it is our hedge - we were told by neighbour 13 years ago when we moved in (the neighbour who died and whose house has been bought by NFH) that it was planted by the previous (first) owner of our house and you can see some of the original stakes the other side of it.

Help please, feel really really desperate and low.
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Postby xoggoth » Fri May 06, 2005 10:24 pm

No expert at all so can't offer much anything more concrete than sympathy, but I am under the impression from everything I have read recently (I have a similar problem to yourself) that even if the hedge actually was over the original boundary line towards his side he does not necessarily have a right to simply cut it down, the law is more complex than that.

If your solicitor is simply measuring across the plans and not considering other legal dimensions maybe he is not much of an expert in boundary law. Perhaps you should look at getting preliminary advice from a decent surveyor.

You should remind the neighbour that it would be in his own interest to be very sure of his facts before taking precipitate action because if he turns out to be wrong the cost of mature hedge trees at replacement cost can be quite horrendous.
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Postby syckend » Fri May 13, 2005 4:23 pm

Hethmar do you have insurance?
Our boundary dispute, against wealthy owners of a neighbouring right of way, went on for 5 and half years - and we were trapped and unable to sell our house. Ownership of a 250m hedge was part of the complicated dispute.
With the aid of photographs of us actually cutting the hedge, and clear evidence that we and our predecessors in title had cut and laid the hedge for forty years we eventually forced our opponents to settle days before the case was due in court. In assessing costs the Judge ruled that the hedge was ours.
We had household legal insurance - and a 70 -80% prospect of success.
Hethmar you need insurance, statements from neighbours that will stand up in court - not gossip - a tried and tested surveyor with access to aerial photos, photographs etc etc. Who planted the hedge? Was it on your land? Can you get statements? I know one neighbour died, but were there children who can help? Take photographs NOW of the stakes on the other side of your hedge - THEY ARE CRUCIAL TO YOUR CASE. Put in secret metal stakes next to them in case NFH removes them - he will. Photograph this action. Don't depend on your solicitor to do all the leg work - but don't do or say anything rash.
Make sure you've got insurance. Good luck. Nil desperandum!
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Postby hethmar » Sun May 22, 2005 1:36 pm

Many thanks. I have now gathered statements from: daughter of previous and only owner (now in her 60s) who signed confirmation that her father planted both hedges as they were totally open to farmland, being first house on the land, statement from deceased neighbours gardener who worked there 20 years and confirms they only ever trimmed lightly that side and it was acknowledged hedge our responsibility, statement from guy we paid to remove fallen trees from the hedge into deceased neighbours garden after a gale, now got note from BT that bt pole on edge of the hedge (other side) is registered from 1948 to our garden, letter from deceased neighbours neice that her aunt was very close to me and that there was never any boundary disputes in the 13 years we lived next to one another.

Got some arial photos from 1946-1988 which arent brilliant really as the crucial period would have been when this was the only house and had hedge showing, but never mind, bulks out the "evidence".

Taken photos of boundary stakes thrown on a bonfire next door. Taken photos of gap in hedge, taken photo of fence panels deceased neighbour erected following the removal of a big shrub next to her back door and which are still in line with our boundary edge (pig says someone has put them too far into his side!), taken photo of the fact that I suddenly realised that the garden level from his side is 3" lower than our side and you can see a ledge where he has removed our shrubs.

Solicitor backing down a bit, told us to let sleeping dogs lie as the guy has done no more, but we really need closure on this, Im sure you all understand that.

The fact is at the moment he is busy with all this building work (and tell me WHY does he have to have not only the noise of drills, hammers, kangos etc plus the radio on at a 1000 decibels so he can hear it over all that noise??) The thing is he is distracted with that, but once that is complete, whose to say he wont return to the "thats my hedge and Im having it down" stance?

Are we wrong, isnt it best to pursue this to the death now? Thinking of going to specialist solicitor which we can ill afford but it would be an investment in that we could not stay here if this person continues to act in this way and how can we sell up if the "boundary dispute" is still hanging in the air just because he has said no more about it?
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Postby despair » Sun May 22, 2005 5:49 pm

When the guy is not there ...........I would hammer in Metal chainlink poles the other side of the hedge all along the boundary where you know it to be given all the evidence you have compiled and then run wires through it ............then tell your solicitor to stop messing about and costing you money but to get an injunction on this guy touching your hedge fast ...............that way if he breaches the injunction he will be in real trouble

Get legal expenses insurance added to your house insurance TODAY .........it wont cover you immediately but it will cover you for any future nonsense from this idiot
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Postby hethmar » Mon May 23, 2005 8:56 am

The thing is, I have legal expenses on my household insurance (thru AA) but when I rang I started giving all the story and they said, oh sorry, it doesnt cover boundary disputes. ??
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Postby Maverick.uk » Mon May 23, 2005 6:03 pm

hethmar wrote:The thing is, I have legal expenses on my household insurance (thru AA) but when I rang I started giving all the story and they said, oh sorry, it doesnt cover boundary disputes. ??


Hmm they may be trying to dodge, make sure you geta copy of the summary of cover.

Cheers

Mav
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Postby hethmar » Tue May 24, 2005 7:23 am

Nope, I rang them again. Guy said, Boundary disputes not covered. If the guy had simply ripped out the hedge and then not used the boundary dispute as an excuse, that would be different. They would pursue damage of hedge but not the boundary dispute.
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