Neighbour objecting over my ROW

Re: Neighbour objecting over my ROW

Postby mr sheen » Wed May 24, 2017 5:12 pm

This matter is completely out of hand.
The matter needs to be brought back to the issue of the right of way only and cleared of all other peripheral issues. If this carries on like this someone may get hurt or arrested and it could be the neighbour or OP who flips...a dangerous situation is festering.
Either....apply for an injunction to prevent interference with the right of way....or accept the situation and completely ignore them which means not seeking to dictate the tone of voice they use nor anything else.....or move.
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Re: Neighbour objecting over my ROW

Postby arsie » Wed May 24, 2017 9:27 pm

Cintapoppy1 wrote:Hi arsie
I thought I had posted this on to my new thread and when I read your comments I realised it was on the old thread, apologies for that.

Advice was to delete the old thread you should have but now it is too late because others have posted on it.

My advice is to make a summary of events to show others.

Can you?
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Re: Neighbour objecting over my ROW

Postby Cintapoppy1 » Sat May 27, 2017 1:13 pm

Hi all,
Again my apologies for me messing up the thread.

A police woman finally came yesterday. She didn't listen to my harassment claims but immediately waded in saying that:

A)
1)I should leave out my bins at the front so I don't have to use the Row - which is not acceptable by me
2) bring my dogs back through my front door so that I don't use the Row - not acceptable by me
When I tried to interrupt and explain that I had a ROW she got quite shirty and said something like 'do you want to hear what I have to say? I cannot tell your neighbours to stop harassing you on their property. If this goes any further you will be banned from going through!

DOES ANYONE KNOW WHETHER THIS COULD BE TRUE?

B)
She asked to see the document with the ROW clause and said that what I am doing may not be deemed 'reasonable purposes' and I would need a solicitor ' letter dated now, to detail what is deemed reasonable use/purposes. This is the very reason I came onto the forum and everybody agreed that my use was reasonable.

DOES ANYONE KNOW OF LEGAL PRECEDENCE WHERE This' reasonable purposes' HAS BEEN SPELLED OUT IN DETAIL?
WOULD A SOLICITOR IN FACT WRITE A LETTER TO SPELL OUT WHAT 'REASONABLE' MEANS UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES?

C)
She said it was a civil matter and I should get a solicitor involved

D)
She would not go to talk to my neighbours but took his email address and said she might email him within the next couple of weeks and would let me know if she had any news. She might try and organise a Community Police Officer to speak to me and them

E) She finally softened a bit and suggested a concealed bodycam for my discreet use on the ROW so that I have the evidence of their bullying. (this still does not help me if I am then barred from using the ROW because the harassment is on their property.

E)
I spoke to a solicitor 'she practice and the secretary told me fixed fee appt is £300 for initial discussion and advice of ramifications of them sending a letter to my neighbours...

DOES ANYONE HAVE AN IDEA WHAT IS POTENTIALLY MEANT BY "RAMIFICATIONS"

Many thanks, sorry about the length about my post again.
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Re: Neighbour objecting over my ROW

Postby Roblewis » Sat May 27, 2017 2:07 pm

Well the police have confirmed that there is no criminal offence and thus she is admitting that they have no role in this matter. The question of reasonable purpose is one that has no legal definition as it is a civil matter which is based on judicial precedent rather than written statute. The judge will try to assess if what is being done is reasonable for a person in your position with a RoW is doing what any reasonable person would d, eg taking bins out and walking a dog along it are perfectly normal. Any statements in the deeds concerning use will assist the decision BUT the judge will also look at circumstances. I think the Injunction route is the best way forward then any time the police call you gently wave the injunction order before them.
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Re: Neighbour objecting over my ROW

Postby despair » Sat May 27, 2017 5:03 pm

Ditto

the policewoman clearly has zero understanding of most basic law
you have ROW and you are prevented using it by harassment

the solicitor you contacted is only interested in money not law
you need one who specialises in land law
but i totally agree with Rob you need an injunction now to prevent your neighbour harassing your lawful and very reasonable use of ROW
then you can wave it at the police who have to act
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Re: Neighbour objecting over my ROW

Postby Cintapoppy1 » Sat May 27, 2017 7:01 pm

Well, it seems that I might as well roll over and give up as it is a lose lose situation for me. I can't afford a solicitor for an injunction which I may or may not get because it's on my neighbours property , I can't sell the house because of a neighbour dispute and my nerves are shot now, and the police won't act. The bullies have won, congratulations to them.
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Re: Neighbour objecting over my ROW

Postby despair » Sat May 27, 2017 7:45 pm

Rent your house out to bigger bully and let them sort out the neighbour
while you move somewhere more peaceful
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Re: Neighbour objecting over my ROW

Postby arborlad » Sat May 27, 2017 8:31 pm

cintapoppy wrote: I have legal cover which covers legal fees and court fees up to £50,000 but I don't know whether it would cover a case like this.




Have you asked them, this is when you need it.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
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Re: Neighbour objecting over my ROW

Postby Cintapoppy1 » Sat May 27, 2017 8:42 pm

I recently took out new home insurance with a different company and paid for additional legal support. Because this has been going on for 3.5 years I doubt they would cover it since this would be a 'on-going issue'. I guess I could ask them for advice and see whether they have any proper property law experts in their department who could spell out some options for me. Thank you for the advice. Kind regards
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Re: Neighbour objecting over my ROW

Postby Cintapoppy1 » Sat May 27, 2017 9:51 pm

Nope, my insurance won't cover it. Another dead end.
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Re: Neighbour objecting over my ROW

Postby arborlad » Sun May 28, 2017 9:03 am

Cintapoppy1 wrote:A police woman finally came yesterday. She didn't listen to my harassment claims but immediately waded in saying that:

A)
1)I should leave out my bins at the front so I don't have to use the Row - which is not acceptable by me
2) bring my dogs back through my front door so that I don't use the Row - not acceptable by me
When I tried to interrupt and explain that I had a ROW she got quite shirty and said something like 'do you want to hear what I have to say? I cannot tell your neighbours to stop harassing you on their property. If this goes any further you will be banned from going through!

DOES ANYONE KNOW WHETHER THIS COULD BE TRUE?




No, based on the facts as we know them - not even remotely true.

What is the history of your properties, are they part of several streets with similar layout and usage or two unique properties with nothing else to compare them too?

It's often said in these circumstances that the role of the police is to prevent a breach of the peace, which is true, but it is also said that the police have no knowledge or expertise in boundaries and easements, which can't be true, a previous related employment or simply living in an identical property around the corner would give them that knowledge and expertise which they could bring to the job.

We rarely get both side of the story but when we do it can be a real eye opener, if the above is a true and accurate account of the police visit, it shows a considerable bias towards the neighbour which shouldn't be there.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
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Re: Neighbour objecting over my ROW

Postby Cintapoppy1 » Sun May 28, 2017 11:54 am

Hi arborlad
Many thanks for your replies. The row of 12 houses I live on were built around 1900 and owned by one person who farm workers lived in them. They have long gardens and paths along the back of the houses. Around 1950 or so the properties were split into and sold as parcels of land with each having the same ROW attached to them as mine does. I spoke to a night 5 houses down the road when I saw him take his dogs out for a walk and he said he always takes them out and brings them back that way. I know and have seen all the wheelie bins being lined up on the passage towards the road, so I know I am not the only one. A friend who lives in a very similar property and setting to mine has no problems either taking her dogs out and bringing them back, or putting her bin out. It seems that quite a few of these 2 up 2 down houses with their long back gardens have similar ROWs.

The police woman, once she started listening to me said that people lie and she would get a different story from them (hence finally advising me to get a body camera). I told her I would swear on anything she wanted me, take an oath or whatever, I am telling the truth - all I do is take the dogs back (not even out anymore), have occasional deliveries, occasionally come back with someone, I don't stop, loiter, look around or in their window (unless someone startles me by flapping around trying to shoo me off) and take out and retrieve my bins. If someone is on or near the path I avoid eye contact since I have learned that she will stare at me angrily . I have only stood my ground twice and argued back but you can't argue with someone in yet another tirade.

My 28 page written detailed log (not a rant, but sequence and details of events) seems worthless if nobody believes me. It includes the bullying about the chimney repairs (emails included) which can be taken out.

I used to be a Commity Secretary which involved taking detailed notes and prepare minutes, I used to wrote reports, gather research, prepare drafts, etc; , I used to treat people (acupuncture) which meant detailed note taking and observations and a good memory for the salient facts because you can't site and read copious notes whilst with a patient. I didn't take notes whilst speaking to the police office but wrote down all the salient points afterwards. I may be ill, but my memory is not yet flawed.

This is not a rant but some background information as to why I know that what I have written is the truth.
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Re: Neighbour objecting over my ROW

Postby Cintapoppy1 » Sun May 28, 2017 12:05 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi Cintapoppy1,

don't send that letter no matter how strong the desire as it will not achieve anything - it may even make things worse.

please advise us, as simply as you can - and without letting your (understandably fraught) emotions cloud things -
what outcome you're looking to achieve.

hope we can help.

Kind regards, Mac


Hi Mac
I would like to use the ROW peacefully for taking my dogs back, my wheelie bins out and back, receive occasional garden or other deliveries, occasionally come back with a friend/workman without being intimidated or harassed by being shouted at. How would this be achievable?
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Re: Neighbour objecting over my ROW

Postby mr sheen » Sun May 28, 2017 2:01 pm

It is easy to get wrapped up in a matter ....and 28 pages detailing 'facts'.....along with long ranting letters that you have or propose to send...illustrate that you are too wrapped up in this.

The Police are picking up on the extent to which you are allowing this to get out of hand and they are considering your behaviour as inappropriate as well as your neighbour. You are at risk of being seen as the aggressor and harasser if you don't get this back into perspective.

Your options are limited....
Seek an injunction to prevent interference with your right of way
Let the matter go and move on
Move

If you keep involving the police, they will not take you seriously and then if you really did need them, they may ignore you.
This is a civil matter to be resolved between neighbours or in civil court.

Take all your documents to a solicitor and get some accurate advice about your position.
Don't engage with the neighbours any more.
If the solicitor believes you have a strong case, you must not jeopardise this by engaging with the neighbour. If you end up being the plaintiff, you need to be squeaky clean in terms of your actions.

If you don't want to spend money on pursuing this, then you will have to accept the current situation since the neighbour knows that you aren't going to pursue this using the appropriate route.

You are not going to convince the neighbour to let you pass over his land. You are not going to convince the neighbour that you have a right to pass over his land.....however many pages and pages of letters you write. The evidence for this is that you say the matter has been going on for a few years already and he hasn't accepted your assertions. So you either prove your rights or accept the situation.

If your case is as clear cut as you claim, you may win all your costs back....if it isn't you need to know before you throw money at it.
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Re: Neighbour objecting over my ROW

Postby despair » Sun May 28, 2017 2:26 pm

if other neighbours with same ROW come and go the same route without objection then the neighbour is deliberately harassing you presumably because he sees you as a weak target wheras he would not tangle with a man

do your homework
gather the facts
get help if CAB see if they think you have a case
DIY injunctions are possible with help of court staff or a CAB solicitor
If you are sure its direct harassment and preventing you exercising your lawful ROW
find a no win no fee lawyer to take it on

or rent your house out and seek peace elsewhere or sell your place on an exchange deal for a new property somewhere
they arenot likely to worry about the neighbour
despair
 
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