adverse possession with right of way

adverse possession with right of way

Postby a7grenade » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:22 am

morning, surprisingly I'm a newby-i guess you get that all the time; i hope someone can offer advice

we live in a row of 60s semis
at the bottom of the gardens is a small lane-around 6ft wide which we use solely for accessing a send plot (we call the secret garden) which is land locked

historically this lane was used for accessing a row of allotments which were in one ownership but related to a row of cottages running 90 degrees to us

long time ago the allotments were sold off-most as one plot for a new house, our house bought one and another house bought the allotment adjoining its own garden
the lane now and has since 82 runs only from our garden to our secret garden
and on our deeds its shown as being a strip which has a right of way but our 'red line' stops short of it

we have been here 14 years and the previous owners purchased the land back in around 82-no other person has access onto this strip-there are no gates-we use it all the time
but
recently the second house along (i will try to add a drawing) said they were re-doing their fence (at the end of their garden-backing onto our lane partially
no problem
but they mentioned they wanted to put a gate in (thought-odd) so they could access and maintain the strip
until this time i was under the impression the strip was effectively not owned by anyone but that it had-on deeds-'a right of way for access and wheelbarrows' ; it doesn't say where to or from

so worried-i checked the land registry for the two adjacent houses and o to my surprise their 'red lines' include the strip at end of each garden and mentions the right of way

now
we have been here 14 years and never has either person been onto that land in my knowledge-there are no gates
their gardens sit about 2 foot higher-one has a low brick wall with fencing onto the second has fencing on top of retaining boards
both have long standing concrete starter posts which appear on the other side also

incidentally the other side runs along all the way with the new house (early eighties) which was allotments and has the same concrete posts

we have always maintained this strip-various pets are buried there and at one end we replaced a dilapidated shed with a play house and tree house
this may be the cause for upset-although built three to four years ago the same neighbour complained nicely it was too high-i dutifully reduced it but it now appears it is on her red lined plot
which she never mentioned-the previous shed was very old and not so high

i have searched and down loaded adverse possession forms ADV1 and FR1; are either correct?
i did appear that i might need to issue these to both neighbours? and pay a fee £130 x 2 ?
but again
i have recently read that the right of way may result in this being thrown out-can anyone shed light please

and yesterday we were shocked to find the neighbour in our tree house cutting back severely the tree
my wife tentatively approached them and they said they were chopping back what was overhanging
my wife carefully did not comment as until a week ago we did not think this was their land

the whole thing is very upsetting
should they start to overtake their garden end we could have to pass through their garden to access our secret garden
i was hoping the 14 years plus neighbour before was all on our side but the ROW worries me
and i haven't been able to get an appointment with a conveyancer for at least the next two weeks

heres hoping
jeremy
Last edited by a7grenade on Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: adverse possession with right of way

Postby a7grenade » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:27 am

ROW
Last edited by a7grenade on Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: adverse possession with right of way

Postby a7grenade » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:29 am

ROW
Last edited by a7grenade on Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: adverse possession with right of way

Postby a7grenade » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:29 am

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Re: adverse possession with right of way

Postby arsie » Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:25 pm

Hi a7

Any chance you could post a bigger pic?

The lines marked on your pic are as wide as the track itself! The current pic shows your house and the hidden garden fine but they are not the issue I think. We need a blow-up of the track to view the neighbour and the encroachment if poss?

edit: p.s. you are correct:
if you have a right of way across land you cannot gain adverse possession as you have permission over the land as of right
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Re: adverse possession with right of way

Postby ukmicky » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:47 pm

As you have a legal right to enter onto this land the owner has had no reason to question your access onto this land and therefore the law would normally deem if it to be inequitable to allow you to claim adverse possession of this land.

If the owner was to incorporate it into their garden you would not be able to object providing they do not prevent your access.

If you have checked the neighbours deeds and you are sure they own this land I feel you need to be very careful how you approach this as they could take exception and then to push the point of ownership further and as you fear remove the boundary fence . They could also if they wished to go further object to you placing your possessions on the ROW .

It may be worth speaking to them and say you have an easement allowing your access over this land but had no idea that this land was owed by them also and are they ok with the treehouse etc remaining. That could however make them think more about their ownership rights which could cause you more problems
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: adverse possession with right of way

Postby span » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:39 pm

Sleeping dogs Jer, sleeping dogs.
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Re: adverse possession with right of way

Postby humptydumpty » Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:42 pm

span wrote:Sleeping dogs Jer, sleeping dogs.

Eh?
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Re: adverse possession with right of way

Postby ukmicky » Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:45 pm

humptydumpty wrote:
span wrote:Sleeping dogs Jer, sleeping dogs.

Eh?


Sleeping dogs , let sleeping dogs lie.
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: adverse possession with right of way

Postby MacadamB53 » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:18 pm

Hi Jeremy,

i haven't been able to get an appointment with a conveyancer for at least the next two weeks

based on what you've described I can't say I understand why you'd need a conveyancer - are you thinking of buying or selling land or negotiating an alternative route for the ROW?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: adverse possession with right of way

Postby a7grenade » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:28 am

Thanks guys, I was coming round to believing that's what was the case
I wish we were made aware when we bought the house they owned the land
I was indicated to us otherwise as the old cottage who originally issued the ROW

I suspect the neighbouring houses to our side,s deeds are probably shown wrong really as the strip is two foot lower, has a low level wall in one case and I think has fences in their current location since the beginning

Sleeping dogs I think is correct, I'm glad I haven't been round there steaming in and falling out

Been lying in bed thinking it's time to talk it through-see what she's up to and maybe offer to take down the tree house

Will post a better picture
Thanks again
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Re: adverse possession with right of way

Postby a7grenade » Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:30 am

[img][img][IMG]http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/a7grenade/IMG_7976.jpg[/img][/img][/img]


new image
incidentally the last bit of passage-ie under the brown shaded piece is no longer there as that cottage just has a straight boundary to us now and for a long time
jeremy

o
and i was going to speak to a conveyancer because i wanted an adverse possession to avoid the lady getting on the strip and putting in a gate etc
before i found it was hers with ROW etc

but as you all seem to think and i found; it looks like i wouldn't succeed
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