Right of Way and New gate

Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby arborlad » Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:07 pm

marine1983 wrote:Well I called the land registry and they didn't know what I was talking about in regards to that message on the website.




Are you sure you are using the correct website, there are some spurious ones out there!!

http://www.landregistry-titledeeds.co.u ... Gwod-CYKhw
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby marine1983 » Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:14 pm

arborlad wrote:
marine1983 wrote:Well I called the land registry and they didn't know what I was talking about in regards to that message on the website.




Are you sure you are using the correct website, there are some spurious ones out there!!

http://www.landregistry-titledeeds.co.u ... Gwod-CYKhw


Oh the irony. Lol the official land register the one with

.gov in its web address. :oops:

https://www.gov.uk/search-property-info ... d-registry
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby MacadamB53 » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:54 pm

Hi marine1983,

you've scanned a TP1 - this is a Transfer Part form used when a landowner transfers part of their title (thus creating a new title).

since your property benefits from a row over the track - like the one mentioned in the TP1 - I have presumed the TP1 is for your title and therefore it is your title only which is burdened with the covenant described in the TP1.

Kind regards, Mac
ps persevere with HMLR - in all my dealings with them I have found them helpful
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby ukmicky » Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:17 am

mr sheen wrote:Councils pay out millions to motorists for cars damaged by potholes...potholes are stationary last time I looked. The details of a case are relevant in relation to duty of care, liability etc

The OP benefits from a clause preventing obstruction of track...he needs to find out if neighbouring property has same clause. He then needs to put the neighbour on notice of the actions he will take and what he will seek to hold them liable for.

Honestly one tries to help an OP and others just criticise you but .....fail to offer any help to the OP.....why????



The duty of care bar is set a lot higher for councils than for you and I. Councils also have a duty to keep the highways clear of obstructions and obvious dangers . And obvious danger is something which can also circumvent the normal test for recklessness .

Getting money out of councils these days is a lot harder than before as councils now often quote section 58 of the Highways Act and then say they take all reasonable steps to maintain the roads and any potholes found are dealt with within a reasonable timeframe .

Mr Sheen

Also I'm not criticising you. If that's how it has come over I apologise because that was not my intention.
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby mr sheen » Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:21 am

......and your comment is of use/relevant to the OP...how?

Nice that you get to state the obvious though......
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby arborlad » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:53 am

marine1983 wrote:Well the gate has gone in. Its a standard width 5 bar gate so it has made the track narrower.




What is the actual width of the gate and just as important, what is the available width between posts, this could be effected by the way the gate is hung?





I would not want to come down the track towing a caravan now and it being shut. How would you trust your handbrake to hold on a steep downhill and a caravan on the back.




................if you can't trust your handbrake in those circumstances, you haven't got a roadworthy vehicle.
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby marine1983 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:44 pm

Just because a handbrake should work under normal circumstances does not mean it would hold. The mot does not test a handbrake holding a towed vehicle. My point is that it's an increased risk which need not be there. We are arguing about semantics here.

The gate is a standard 5 bar gate. The posts a located on the verges of the track.

My point I guess do our covenants cover the gate being there? It's certainly a nuisance and is a change from what was previous. I need to call the land registry again to explain that message to me. Our deeds have been split from the farms original one. He may have a separate title also but have the same covenants?

Who has the title of the original farm deeds? Are both houses benefitting as we have child deeds split from that?

Why on downloading his title from the land registry show ours? I guess we need to ascertain that first.

We have had a chat with the neighbour and his point still stands that he is entitled to put a gate across it, it's my land etc. It's clear the gate is not just for his dog but to also annoy us. Proving that is impossible. He is an ex policeman so thinks he knows the laws as he mentioned a gate is not an obstruction which either he has sought legal advice or he is just pompous being a copper.

I did bring up the clause but he just smirked and said take it to court then.
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby MacadamB53 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:10 pm

Hi marine1983,

It's certainly a nuisance

you keep stating this, or similar, but it's not - a farm gate across a farm track with the posts in the verge is not a nuisance.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby marine1983 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:38 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi marine1983,

It's certainly a nuisance

you keep stating this, or similar, but it's not - a farm gate across a farm track with the posts in the verge is not a nuisance.

Kind regards, Mac


But does this statement still stand should the covenants also apply to him? It's specifically mentions anything that could grow into a nuseance.

It seems I have no legal course frustrating as it seems
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby mr sheen » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:44 pm

Been through this before on page 1. Info is changing all the time.....and points made back on page 1 seem to apply now.
You can only take action if the width of the track has been reduced so as to amount to a 'substantial interference' to you passing and repassing. If the gate posts are in the verge (new info), the opening is probably the same width as pre-gate, so it is not obstructing the passing and repassing of traffic once opened.
All you can do is leave it open when you use it.
The 'nuisance' clause is not relevant since a gate on a rural track is not a legal nuisance. A gate on a track of property that is or has been agricultural, can be claimed to be for helping to control livestock and consequently is highly unlikely to be classified as a legal 'nuisance'.
Annoying you is completely different from causing a legal nuisance.

Looks like neighbour is aware of the 'substantial interference' measure too....so my guess is you will get nowhere with this.
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby marine1983 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:47 pm

Not sure the information has changed. But I take your points. Thanks for all your opinions and help on this matter.
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby Scrambler » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:32 pm

There is no such thing as a standard 5 bar gate. Any chance of actually mentioning the clear width now available( as asked by another poster ) and is it now the narrowest point on the track ? This could be significant.

There are cases in the past where newly erected gates have been found to be a substantial interference, a link was posted to one earlier in this thread. The case is strengthened if you can demonstrate it has been deliberately erected to cause inconvenience as part of a ongoing harassment.

Keep a diary of all the comments your neighbour makes. It is now evident the gates purpose is not to retain a dog as first mentioned.
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby arborlad » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:01 am

nothingtodowithme wrote:
There is no such thing as a standard 5 bar gate.


There is indeed such a thing as a standard 5 bar field gate. :D




Nonsense - there is no such thing :roll: :roll:
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby Scrambler » Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:34 am

nothingtodowithme wrote:
There is no such thing as a standard 5 bar gate.


There is indeed such a thing as a standard 5 bar field gate. :D



Here is a link to somewhere that sells 5 bar gates...perhaps you could advise which one is the "standard" one ?

http://www.sam-turner.co.uk/farming/fen ... gates.html
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby marine1983 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:57 pm

I appreciate your opinion on the gate widths. I'm not prepared at this point to go up with a tape measure. I guess its just my opinion and it seems that the law will not uphold my belief of the access being hindered. I can accept that at this point in time. The track has been narrowed as the posts now sit in the grass verge however not actually in the track.

My opinion is that it has limited the allowable maneuvering space allowed should someone come down with a caravan and has not quite got it lined up for it to pass through the gate cleanly. There room for error has been reduced in my opinion. They certainly will not be able to reverse up and get a second go at it. People will of course say "well they shouldn't be towing blah blah blah"

My neighbors response to the gate was that we should go and open the gates for the paying customers. Completely impracticable due to the amounts of potential traffic volume.

Time will tell for now. But the irony of all his arguments have now fallen down as he has left the gate open while he has popped out. Double standards if you ask me!
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