Right of Way and New gate

Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby mr sheen » Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:24 pm

Not double standards marine. You can leave the gate open and so can he ie all users have equal rights to leave the gate open.
It appears that the neighbour may have an issue with 'paying guests' and the business use of the land and hence the increased use of the track. Presumably you have discussed the increased use of the track with the neighbour and agreed compensatory maintenance matters?
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby marine1983 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:32 pm

There is no compensation to pay. We are both liable. However its proportional use for repair and maintenance. Its in the deeds.

Its hard to mention what's gone on and I won't go into detail. I mention double standards as others things were said which makes me say that.

Time will tell I guess to see if the relationship breaks down further.
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby Scrambler » Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:09 pm

And the width of the new gate remains a mystery :roll:
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby arborlad » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:36 am

nothingtodowithme wrote:
Here is a link to somewhere that sells 5 bar gates...perhaps you could advise which one is the "standard" one ?

http://www.sam-turner.co.uk/farming/fen ... gates.html
Scrambler



Of course my pleasure,they are all standard;unless you want bespoke!
Friendly regards. :D




In trying to assist the OP and establish how much of an obstruction might be presented by the new gate and posts, it is essential to know what is the available width between the posts, this will be entirely dependent on the length of that gate.

There is not the remotest possibility that this dimension can be determined by the quality of that gate.
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby marine1983 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:07 pm

I have the answer to the questions that I needed. Thanks for all your help and opinions.
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby arborlad » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:24 am

marine1983 wrote:I have the answer to the questions that I needed. Thanks for all your help and opinions.




.............but have you?..........when nonsense is placed in a thread, it tends to divert that thread away from the true issues!

The circumstances surrounding the separate covenant not to obstruct are a bit misleading, because you have that already, as of right, it was one of the rights you bought when you purchased the property.

There's no apparent input from the livestock owner so claims that the purpose of the gate is for stock control are likely to fail and the new gate would be replacing one that has been there or thereabouts for a couple of centuries.

As well as the length of the gate being unknown, how well the gate has been hung, what latches have been used and how easy are they to operate, whether it opens uphill or downhill, are all going to have a significant impact on its use in that location.

Do you have NFU or CLA membership?
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby marine1983 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:02 am

I have what I need. The land registry attached the same title deeds to both houses hence the message I had posted. Their error is going to be rectified. The neighbor has a separate title with no matching covenants. I have since found that the covenants i posted only apply to me and not him. I just have to accept it, my only options are to leave it open once I have used it.


For your information the gate opens downhill. I'm still of the impression its done out of malice. If I was in his shoes I would of just fenced the dog in and used the gate that's already there across his drive and ran a roll of chicken wire around the garden he refused to do this also saying he doesn't want his property to look like fort knox. I guess i'm just more considerate of my surroundings and neighbors.

After our discussion the dog was not the only thing that popped up that he has a grievance with us about. It quickly went from the dog to other issues he feels we should be doing. We suggested that we could have an agreement that when his dog is out that if our gate is open he should shut it also to keep his dog off our land. When the dog comes back in he then opens his gate. He flat out refused to do so. He has already left it open so kind of defeats his argument of it protecting livestock.
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:24 am

Hi marine1983,

The land registry attached the same title deeds to both houses...

on the search facility for their "find a property" service, not on the register itself - yes?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby marine1983 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:30 am

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi marine1983,

The land registry attached the same title deeds to both houses...

on the search facility for their "find a property" service, not on the register itself - yes?

Kind regards, Mac



Apologies I should of made that clear. Yes the error was on the "find a property" service and not the official register. We own the land :)
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby stufe35 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:39 am

marine1983 wrote:. I guess i'm just more considerate of my surroundings and neighbors.

My neighbors response to the gate was that we should go and open the gates for the paying customers. Completely impracticable due to the amounts of potential traffic volume.


.


Looking at it from your neighbours point of view...he lived up a nice quite country track ...but his neighbours have gone and got permission for a caravan park that going to turn his drive into the M6....his action to frustrate the success of your business isn't that suprising; to me anyway.
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby marine1983 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:53 am

stufe35 wrote:
marine1983 wrote:. I guess i'm just more considerate of my surroundings and neighbors.

My neighbors response to the gate was that we should go and open the gates for the paying customers. Completely impracticable due to the amounts of potential traffic volume.


.


Looking at it from your neighbours point of view...he lived up a nice quite country track ...but his neighbours have gone and got permission for a caravan park that going to turn his drive into the M6....his action to frustrate the success of your business isn't that suprising; to me anyway.


Ah touche. The property already benefited planning to convert the old barns into holiday lets. He also had the opportunity to complain during the planning process. In fact he even signed a letter stating that he is happy. The deeds also specifically state that we have 6 years access across his land to start a holiday business.

He knew exactly what we were doing and before he bought. Your thoughts however may be wholly correct since his actions do indeed coerce this thought process. Which is malice in my books. Proving that is a whole new story.
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby stufe35 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:22 pm

Marine,

As mentioned previously you must keep an accurate diary of all comments and actions he makes, photographs, telephone calls everything. There is no doubt in my mind the purpose of this gate is to frustrate your use of the track and the success of your business especially against the background you have just revealed.

That makes it a substantial interference...proving the case and the risks of costs if you lose are of course another matter. But you have to start somewhere...who knows where this will lead in a few years time..make sure you gather the evidence....hopefully you will not need it.

In my view you should complain whenever his dog is loose and unsupervised on the track....it cannot in this circumstance possibly be under control as required by law---involve the dog warden for your area.

Hell probably get sick of running out to close the gate every time you leave it open after a while.
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby marine1983 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:31 pm

I agree with your points. Time will tell I guess at the moment things are civil. We left it at we agreed to disagree with our stances on the matter. His actions don't back up his arguments even after this short space in time from the gate implementation.

The background is complicated but its not relevant to my original questions. I have my answers, as you say he has to shut the gate also now. So that will get tedious for him as well as us. The ball is in his court to see if he goes further in his actions. We will be watching.

Again thanks for all your opinions.
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby arborlad » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:20 pm

marine1983 wrote: The deeds also specifically state that we have 6 years access across his land to start a holiday business.



What happens at the end of 6 years?
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Re: Right of Way and New gate

Postby marine1983 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:33 pm

I should of clarified we have 6 years to comply with highways stipulation about access splays etc.

The previous owners of the whole farm knew we wanted to do a holiday business. As its his land they put a clause in stating that we had 6 years to make the highways improvements. (That's what they stated to us, doing us a favour as such) However through the planning process we have since found out that they should of improved the splays as part of their original planning approval to convert our house into a dwelling (old cart shed). It was part of a condition prior to it being habitable.

So in effect they have passed the original burden and cost to us as the new tenants. It states in the deeds that the improvements should be done at our whole expense, which is fair as we want to do the campsite. Also highway standards have also been raised since 1995 when it was first issued. However should the original splays which were conditioned as planning of the planning approval then it would not of cost so much.

I may add that even though its stipulated in the deeds the council still wanted a signed letter stating that he was happy for us to improve the splays over his land. He signed happily. It leads to a question for me now. We have been given planning and legally entitled to carry out the plan. Does that mean the 6 years is now legally a non entity? Can we carry on say in 20 years time etc? Has he in effect signed his land away?
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