Gate into my garden

Gate into my garden

Postby John the Clay » Sat May 13, 2017 6:29 pm

:( My neighbour keeps coming into my garden and cutting down my plants. There is a gate between us as we are part of a terrace and my garden used to have a shared privvy and there was access across all four terrace gardens (two privies one in 1st and 3rd house gardens) to the alley parallel to garden four for night soil collection.
Obviously there is no longer a privvy in my garden as we all have bathrooms now.
While I was away on holiday the neighbour replaced the fence and gate although I had specifically asked them not to.
Can I put a bolt on my side of the gate to prevent him accessing my garden. I placed a wood pile against the gate but he moved the wood pile to get into my garden.
I really feel intimidated by his behaviour.
He doesn't actually defecate in my garden, but I worry that he may feel he has the right to, as he certainly seems happy to kill my plants.
John the Clay
 
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Re: Gate into my garden

Postby despair » Sat May 13, 2017 6:50 pm

i cannot for one minute see that a ROW to a privvy that no longer exists gives them any permision whatsoever to install a gate let alone enter your garden and attack your plants

in your shoes i would definitely screw the gate shut ( green decking screws are fantastic with just the right head on an electric or even hand screwdriver with no need other than a bradawl to start the hole)
despair
 
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Re: Gate into my garden

Postby MacadamB53 » Sat May 13, 2017 7:04 pm

Hi John the Clay,

the existence of the gate suggests one property may come with a right of way over the other, or both do.

if his has a ROW over yours then bolting the gate would be a very bad idea - unlawful in fact.

however, if the original and sole purpose for the gate was to provide access to the privy then the need for a gate ended when the privy was no more - so lose the gate to avoid confusion.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Gate into my garden

Postby John the Clay » Sat May 13, 2017 7:40 pm

Hi Mac,
I am the end terrace without access to the alley which is 4 houses away. Had I still got the privvy I would have access through their garden and the next two to empty the night soil in whatever receptacle for the night soil collector. There has been no privvy in my garden for 50 years.
Seriously does my neighbour have a right to be in my garden? A right to use my indoor toilet? A right to dispense with formalities and defecate in my garden?
I just don't want him in my garden.
John the Clay
 
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Re: Gate into my garden

Postby John the Clay » Sat May 13, 2017 7:50 pm

Dear Despair,
When they replaced the fence and gate, they replaced a pre-existing gate and corrugated iron fence which were a bit tatty but serviceable. As the end terrace the only reason that the neighbour would have access to my garden would be for my now non existing privvy but then I am not accessing his garden and the next and the next... to empty the non existing privvy...
I really would like him not in my garden. He does this when I am on holiday. I placed the log pile as a deterrent but he shoved it aside, scattering the logs.
I suppose if I attempted to block his access he would damage his own fence trying to get in.
John the Clay
 
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Re: Gate into my garden

Postby despair » Sat May 13, 2017 8:14 pm

if the ROW was specifically fir access to the privy which no longer exists the neighbour no longer is entitled to a ROW

so yes i would screw shut his gate ...he us an interfering old busybody who refuses to grasp the truth about what the old ROW meant
despair
 
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Re: Gate into my garden

Postby MacadamB53 » Sat May 13, 2017 9:49 pm

John the Clay wrote:Hi Mac,
I am the end terrace without access to the alley which is 4 houses away. Had I still got the privvy I would have access through their garden and the next two to empty the night soil in whatever receptacle for the night soil collector. There has been no privvy in my garden for 50 years.
Seriously does my neighbour have a right to be in my garden? A right to use my indoor toilet? A right to dispense with formalities and defecate in my garden?
I just don't want him in my garden.
Hi John,

which bit of the following do I need to rephrase for you:

if the original and sole purpose for the gate was to provide access to the privy then the need for a gate ended when the privy was no more - so lose the gate to avoid confusion.

Kind regards, Mac
MacadamB53
 
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Re: Gate into my garden

Postby John the Clay » Sat May 13, 2017 11:16 pm

Dear Mac and Despair,
I feel more confident over blocking his access to my garden. I won't ruin the gate by screwing it shut, but I will apply a couple of bolts and a padlock.
Thanks folks
John the CLay
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Re: Gate into my garden

Postby mr sheen » Sun May 14, 2017 6:39 am

You need to check the wording on the deeds. Often people think a right of way is for a specific purpose but in reality the wording is different.
Post the exact wording here and people will be able to assist you.
Making the assumption that the right of way was for a single defunct purpose and then taking action may result in an escalation of the matter.
Placing obstructions on a legitimate right of way will result in the neighbour legitimately removing them so this matter will just escalate. You are already irate, as evidenced with the suggestions of what your neighbour could do in your garden which is clearly not happening.
This matter needs to be brought back to a reasonable level and resolved so that it doesn't escalate further.

Resolving the matter begins with clarifying who has what rights. The deeds are the starting point. A plan of the terraced houses is the next stage since multiple rights often exist with terraced properties if they are long standing properties since people carried coal etc between properties and rights of way developed by prescription from a time when people lived in harmony.

Your expectations also need to be realistic. If rights exist across your land you have to respect them and they often exist with terraced properties.
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Re: Gate into my garden

Postby despair » Sun May 14, 2017 7:31 am

i totally agree that i
before taking action its utterly vital to check very carefully the wording of the ROW

if the neighbour does still have a ROW whilst he can pass through your garden to get to the next he most certainly cannot touch or tamper with your plants or property
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Re: Gate into my garden

Postby stufe35 » Mon May 15, 2017 7:57 am

Ive just read this thread and cannot believe some of the advice about blocking a right of way based on the information given.

Thank goodness Mr Sheen came along....John the clay you need to follow that advice and first determine the legal situation. If you post the wording of the deeds on here and if possible a diagram showing the layout, who owns what and where the ROW is alleged to be you will be much more likely to get good advice about your situation.

The behaviour of your neighbour suggests to me he believes he does have a ROW and understands the rules. The existence of a gate is also evidence as Mac points out.

Regarding Despairs last comment that your neighbour cannot touch your plants or property...your neighbour absolutely can move your property if it is blocking the route (such as your log pile) and cut back vegetation if it is overgrowing the right of way (assuming he does have a ROW).

So back to basics...lets first work out if the neighbour has a right of way...wording in deeds (if any) and diagram ideally as describing a layout is fraut with difficulty.
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Re: Gate into my garden

Postby despair » Mon May 15, 2017 9:56 am

the neighbour has no right whatever to enter the OPs garden to cut back plants unless they are blocking a legitimate ROW

from what i have read the neighbour seems to think he can walk into the OPs garden and do exactly what he likes and that is not on
i totally agree that the full details of the ROW is vital
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Re: Gate into my garden

Postby MacadamB53 » Mon May 15, 2017 10:58 am

John the Clay wrote:Dear Mac and Despair,
I feel more confident over blocking his access to my garden. I won't ruin the gate by screwing it shut, but I will apply a couple of bolts and a padlock.
Thanks folks
John the CLay
I would do the neighbourly thing and forewarn him.
he may then provide information you were unaware of which evidences a ROW - meaning you should not carry out your plan.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Gate into my garden

Postby stufe35 » Mon May 15, 2017 11:20 am

Before writing to your neighbour, id advise looking at your own deeds to see if you have evidence of a ROW; then you might avoid the need; and you might avoid further upsetting your neighbour by telling him you are going to lock a gate which at the moment he clearly believes he has a right to access through.

You have already blocked what he clearly believes is his right of way once (with logs) without doing your homework. Now do your homework before threatening to block it again....otherwise it is you that is acting in an unreasonable manner.

People don't normally come onto other peoples land and start moving stuff and cutting vegetation unless they are sure of their position. (though of course it is possible !)

Does this path to the privy lead on elsewhere ie I guess they key question is does the path through your garden form the only link from his back garden to the public road (other than going through his house) ?
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Re: Gate into my garden

Postby SwitchRich » Mon May 15, 2017 2:02 pm

Guess the only thing I would say here is that old buildings (which I'm guessing yours is) used to have ROW's mainly for the filling of coal sheds.
So before you start any action have a think about whether this ROW was for JUST a privy or for something else.
Buy a copy of yours and your neighbours deeds and plan documents from Land Registry (will cost £9) and post them here. (mark over your address if you want to keep private)
The guys here are super helpful if they have all the info to hand. Otherwise you have conjecture.
And do keep the forum updated as many stories go untold here! :)
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