ROW problems

Re: ROW problems

Postby mr sheen » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:16 pm

More info is needed to answer your questions in detail, in particular, what is the neighbour's assertion? What do the rest of the deeds say? What do the neighbouring deeds say?....all this can be reviewed by a solicitor to give an assessment of your position.

The allotment may have a right to be accessed. The plot probably doesn't. Since this will be difficult to police, one solution would be to gate off the ROW with agreement with other owners of the backstreet sections and provide keys to legitimate users but not the plot owner. Thus forcing you to prove a ROW. The neighbours may or may not think to do this.

Since you have received a solicitors letter, the ROW to the plot is in dispute, so this will need to be disclosed if you plan to sell. It may prove problematic getting a legitimate ROW to plot A without compensating the landowners of the backstreet.

The benefit to plot A of a ROW via the backstreet is of itself a proprietary benefit with financial value. If it didn't have any value to plot A, you have the option of relinquishing the right......but this is not advisable since it has value.
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Re: ROW problems

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:28 pm

Hi mr sheen,

the parcel of land we're referring to as "allotment" includes a section of the back street - there is little doubt it benefits from a ROW over the rest of the back street.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: ROW problems

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:40 pm

Hi cooperatkippax,

the law has it that the owner of the two plots cannot merely use the ROW and then pass across "allotment" in order to get the "other" plot.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: ROW problems

Postby mr sheen » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:58 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi mr sheen,

the parcel of land we're referring to as "allotment" includes a section of the back street - there is little doubt it benefits from a ROW over the rest of the back street.

Kind regards, Mac


Mac
I'm fully aware that the 'allotment' is highly likely to have a right of access ie there is only a little doubt.

Whereas you may be willing to use exact terms indicating 100% certainty without seeing the full deeds and other documents, I ALWAYS pass comment with reference to probability ie possible, likely, highly likely etc etc since unless I have access to all the evidence I believe there is always an element of doubt especially where there is a vested interest in the information being provided. So the 'little doubt' you refer to above may be zero doubt to you but is in fact a little doubt to me.

There is 'little doubt' that the allotment has a right of access over the backstreet but it is likely that the plot does NOT have a legitimate right of access over the backstreet.

We need to know what the assertions of the neighbour are via his solicitor to get an idea of what the neighbour(s) intend to do about it or are seeking to get from raising the issue...eg are they seeking money?
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Re: ROW problems

Postby pilman » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:28 pm

In 1997 I bought a terrace house which once belonged to the developer of all properties on the row of terraces and all surrounding land. each of the terrace houses own part of the back street and an allotment garden beyond. I also purchased a piece of land beyond (plot a)the allotment gardens (which originally belonged to the developer back in year dot). I have always accessed this plot A from the allotment garden that came with the house I bought.

In 1999 I separated the house from the allotment garden and section of road and sold the house with a new title and no Right of access. Since then I have purchased another access to plot A and gained planning consent. It is currently on the market and includes the sale of the allotment garden and section of road including its original ROW.

I have now received a solicitors letter from a neighbour saying that I can not use the ROW as it is being used to access Plot A.
As that was the starting section of this thread, surely all the facts regarding the ownership of the back road and the allotment were made clear from the start.
Then the reserved rights were made clear.
'to the property owner full, free and uninterrupted access along the back street and any other streets that may be constructed and for any purpose. RESERVING NEVERTHELESS to the Vendor, heirs, Executors, trustees and Assigns and to all other persons they may grant the same similar rights along the back street.'
Note that the last few words added people that could be granted rights by "heirs" or by "assigns"

The Original Poster is now an "assignee" because he owns land previously owned by the "vendor" who developed all the land that the Vendor owned when he started selling off the terraced houses with allotment plots.

It now seems that the OP owns the part of the back road between the original house and the allotment plot, together with the allotment plot, together with another parcel of land originally owned by the "Vendor" who had developed the original terrace of houses with an adjacent back street.

The OP now wants to grant rights over the back street and the allotment plot to access the other parcel of land originally owned by the "Vendor" which means that he intends to "grant similar rights of way along the back street" as he is entitled to do because of the reservation clause that was "probably" included into every conveyance of sale when part of the back street was included with each plot sold by the "Vendor".

The further fact is that a separate access is also available to the new plot A, which is what will be offered for sale as a building plot.

As long as these facts are clearly set out when the sale is made of Plot A, with the allotment land and with the back street included in the sale, I cannot see why there is any need to deal with a solicitor acting for a neighbour who may own part of the back street.

Leave it up to the buyer to decide how he/she/it wants to deal with the land in the future. There is clear access to the land that does not require use of the back street, so a potential developer will always have the ability to develop Plot A and add the allotment land as part of a larger residential plot, or to develop Plot A and sell off the allotment plot with the back land that provides access to it, if that scenario will increase the developer's profits.

Provided a house erected on Plot A allows direct access from the new access point to the back garden that will be set out behind the house, the alternative access over the back lane and over the allotment plot is not an essential requirement for development to proceed. If it was essential then the legal right to use it will need to be resolved, but there is always the alternative option to retain the back street with a smaller area of the allotment, while including a larger area of the allotment as part of a future residential plot to be marketed as Plot A+ larger garden.

Then sell the smaller allotment to a local who wants such a plot for agricultural hobby purposes.

Why risk a legal argument when there are practical alternatives available?
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Re: ROW problems

Postby cooperatkippax » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:24 pm

Pilman wins...As well as fully understanding the reservations within the deeds he also grasped the full picture of the situation...Pilman you stated practically word for word what my solicitor stated today. I must admit my solicitor used some colourful language in response to the solicitors letter I had received!

My solicitor is convinced there has occurred an easement by necessity, a prescriptive easement over the 20 years use but I also have the reserved rights granted by the vendor in servient deeds.

Result is to ignore the solicitors letter which exceeds his legal authority.

Thanks for the advice guys
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