Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby Roblewis » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:01 pm

I would simply write to the solicitor stating that the wood in question had been located on your premises at the time of vacant possession. It was claimed by Mr X, your neighbour some time shortly after you moved in and was then removed from your land by the aforesaid neighbour. He did gift 2 lengths to you and removed the remaining 28 lengths. You have no knowledge what he did with the remaining timber and had no evidence that the timber did in fact belong to him other than his statement at the time. Then state that if he wishes to continue with this claim he should forthwith provided documentary evidence that he was the owner of the timber and further documentary evidence that he did NOT take it away.

Go on to state that you will be acting for yourself in this matter and that your hourly rate for dealing with this issue will be £360per hour charged on a basis of 10 minute increment to the nearest 10 min above. Standard Charges and transport at 40p per mile will be supplemental to these figures. If they wish to continue with this matter please sign the attached copy letter to indicate their agreement to these fees. Also request them to please also attach a certified and dated purchase invoice for the timber to show the value at purchase and the vendor details.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby stressederic » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:44 pm

Roblewis wrote:I would simply write to the solicitor stating that the wood in question had been located on your premises at the time of vacant possession. It was claimed by Mr X, your neighbour some time shortly after you moved in and was then removed from your land by the aforesaid neighbour. He did gift 2 lengths to you and removed the remaining 28 lengths. You have no knowledge what he did with the remaining timber and had no evidence that the timber did in fact belong to him other than his statement at the time. Then state that if he wishes to continue with this claim he should forthwith provided documentary evidence that he was the owner of the timber and further documentary evidence that he did NOT take it away.

Go on to state that you will be acting for yourself in this matter and that your hourly rate for dealing with this issue will be £360per hour charged on a basis of 10 minute increment to the nearest 10 min above. Standard Charges and transport at 40p per mile will be supplemental to these figures. If they wish to continue with this matter please sign the attached copy letter to indicate their agreement to these fees. Also request them to please also attach a certified and dated purchase invoice for the timber to show the value at purchase and the vendor details.


Thanks for that.

Given my neighbour is clearly doing this as part of his harassment against me...i want to stick it to him.

Can i state that my neighbour took the wood which was legally mine ie left on my property on vacant possesion and that the said wood was not included in any of the sales particulars?...and it is in fact him who owes me for the wood as he took it without my permission from my property ?-

FYI he actually has the wood on his land still?...i've taken pictures of the wood!..i also have pictures of the wood on my land just after i completed.

Cheers.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby mr sheen » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:05 pm

Hold on with this....it is getting out of hand and soaring into the realms of neighbour war which courts hate.

You need to keep calm and reasonable in all responses.

The letter to the solicitor should be short and simple. The neighbour has the burden of proof so don't 'gift' them information they can later use against you.

I would reply....

I acknowledge you letter dated....

The purchase of our property, in line with the contract, was completed on date.....
I have no idea what you are talking about and dispute your clients assertions.
Please forward a copy of the contract you are relying upon that indicates any agreement made about items left on the property post completion.
I look forward to hearing from you.


This would be a small claims court claim and the cost of his solicitor sending letters back and fore to you will cost him more than the value of the disputed items.
Until costs are determined in court each covers their own. Courts are very unlikely to pay you astronomical amounts of costs for dealing with your own case relating to a few bits of wood, and asking for this makes it look as though you know nothing about the law which makes solicitors laugh out loud, as they rake in their fees.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby stressederic » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:49 pm

mr sheen wrote:Hold on with this....it is getting out of hand and soaring into the realms of neighbour war which courts hate.

You need to keep calm and reasonable in all responses.

The letter to the solicitor should be short and simple. The neighbour has the burden of proof so don't 'gift' them information they can later use against you.

I would reply....

I acknowledge you letter dated....

The purchase of our property, in line with the contract, was completed on date.....
I have no idea what you are talking about and dispute your clients assertions.
Please forward a copy of the contract you are relying upon that indicates any agreement made about items left on the property post completion.
I look forward to hearing from you.


This would be a small claims court claim and the cost of his solicitor sending letters back and fore to you will cost him more than the value of the disputed items.
Until costs are determined in court each covers their own. Courts are very unlikely to pay you astronomical amounts of costs for dealing with your own case relating to a few bits of wood, and asking for this makes it look as though you know nothing about the law which makes solicitors laugh out loud, as they rake in their fees.



Ok understood.
However, if i am representing myself surely it would be reasonable to have it stated in correspondence that i am rep'ing myself and to state 'some' kind of reasonable fees to cover my own costs/time etc??

and for my own education on small claims; If the claimant does win in a small claims court...can the court order the defendant to pay the legal fees of the claimant?
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby mr sheen » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:59 pm

For a few bucks litigants are usually expected to represent themselves.
If you want to claim costs, they tend to need to be costs actually incurred. If you claim your own time you would have to prove loss of earnings etc incurred as a direct result of using your time but in reality this rarely washes with a Judge.
Yes if you lose you may have to pay costs.
In the case of the £300 wood, I would correspond endlessly with his solicitor and when he sends the evidence you have asked for and invoice for purchase of the wood in the first place, I would then calculate the cost of 2 pieces and send a cheque in full and final settlement of the case.....and then their chance if winning is reduced and their chance of being awarded costs is reduced so then let them take their chances over a few bucks.

But whilst you are involved in multiple disputes with this neighbour it is really important that you retain decorum and follow Civil Procedure Rules and behave impeccably and correspond in a reasonable manner that suggests resolution is your aim. Making outrageous claims for personal time or protesting that you are acting for yourself makes you look unfocused on dispute resolution.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby Roblewis » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:45 pm

That is my hourly rate as a consultant :D and it is not outrageous as many sols are at £500 plus and recently a consultant has successfully made a claim based on his stated hourly rate which was clearly stated at the start of the dispute. I feel any sol reading such a statement would feel very uneasy about moving forward with what is essentially a small claim and want to move out of the line of action. He will get short shrift if he tries to take his clients claim to the county court and could well be refused any costs whatever the result. Judges do not like these abuses of the courts. Certainly you can offer to pay for the 2 lengths if you wish but ONLY on the basis of a receipted invoice for the material at purchase.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby Collaborate » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:43 pm

No solicitor would fail to realise that unless the litigant in person is also a solicitor, with a practicing certificate, they cannot claim an hourly rate for their time defending an action.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby stressederic » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:34 pm

so the case and defence so far is:

Upon vacant possession of my property there were 30 lengths of wood left of my land. Said wood was NOT mentioned in any of the sale particulars/documents.
My understanding is that, the wood became my property at completion?

My neighbour has not sent any comms to me asking for the wood back. He has asserted he supplied all of the wood to me at my request. However he has provided no evidence to back this up.
The truth being he gifted me 2 lengths and then entered my land and took the remaining wood without my permission - which is trespass and theft. However, notwithstanding this, it wasnt his wood to gift in the first place as the wood had become my property.

The reasonable thing to have done would have been for him to request the wood back, which i most likely would have been ok with anyway. As far as i was concerned there was a load of wood left/abandoned on my land.

Does this seem correct?
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:51 pm

Roblewis wrote:Mac

It is on such matters that lawyers make a lot of money. Contract Law has many intricacies and ultimately only a court will decide if it is reasonable to assume such an item was included in a sale. Defending the taking of an expensive personal effect because it was left post completion would be difficult but 30 lengths of timber - that is a different ball game.
Hi Collaborate,

not if shortly post-completion the buyer accepted/acknowledged as a gift from the seller 2 of the 30 lengths of timber - that would seem to suggest tacit agreement the timber was not included in the sale...

kind regards, Mac
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby Collaborate » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:56 am

MacadamB53 wrote:
Roblewis wrote:Mac

It is on such matters that lawyers make a lot of money. Contract Law has many intricacies and ultimately only a court will decide if it is reasonable to assume such an item was included in a sale. Defending the taking of an expensive personal effect because it was left post completion would be difficult but 30 lengths of timber - that is a different ball game.
Hi Collaborate,

not if shortly post-completion the buyer accepted/acknowledged as a gift from the seller 2 of the 30 lengths of timber - that would seem to suggest tacit agreement the timber was not included in the sale...

kind regards, Mac


Did you mean me?
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby stressederic » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:32 am

MacadamB53 wrote:
Roblewis wrote:Mac

It is on such matters that lawyers make a lot of money. Contract Law has many intricacies and ultimately only a court will decide if it is reasonable to assume such an item was included in a sale. Defending the taking of an expensive personal effect because it was left post completion would be difficult but 30 lengths of timber - that is a different ball game.
Hi Collaborate,

not if shortly post-completion the buyer accepted/acknowledged as a gift from the seller 2 of the 30 lengths of timber - that would seem to suggest tacit agreement the timber was not included in the sale...

kind regards, Mac


So your saying that after going through the sale particulars and filling out forms saying what was included and what wasnt included in the sale and all pre-contract enquirers and this all this been overseen by his solictor, that the seller simply through ignorance thought it would be fine to leave a load of wood on the land he is selling without even mentioning it and then claim it back post completion...surely if this was his plan, he would have mentioned this to a. me or b. his solicitor.

Is tacit agreement even accepted in conveyancing? I would say this is more miss-selling / reckless on the sellers behalf.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:12 am

Collaborate wrote:
MacadamB53 wrote:
Roblewis wrote:Mac

It is on such matters that lawyers make a lot of money. Contract Law has many intricacies and ultimately only a court will decide if it is reasonable to assume such an item was included in a sale. Defending the taking of an expensive personal effect because it was left post completion would be difficult but 30 lengths of timber - that is a different ball game.
Hi Collaborate,

not if shortly post-completion the buyer accepted/acknowledged as a gift from the seller 2 of the 30 lengths of timber - that would seem to suggest tacit agreement the timber was not included in the sale...

kind regards, Mac


Did you mean me?
sorry - this should be for Roblewis
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby Roblewis » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:53 am

Mac

Have I missed something? I presumed the OPs vendor and the neighbour were in fact two different people.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby stressederic » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:07 am

Roblewis wrote:Mac

Have I missed something? I presumed the OPs vendor and the neighbour were in fact two different people.



same person
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby SwitchRich » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:51 pm

mr sheen wrote:For a few bucks litigants are usually expected to represent themselves.
If you want to claim costs, they tend to need to be costs actually incurred. If you claim your own time you would have to prove loss of earnings etc incurred as a direct result of using your time but in reality this rarely washes with a Judge.
Yes if you lose you may have to pay costs.
In the case of the £300 wood, I would correspond endlessly with his solicitor and when he sends the evidence you have asked for and invoice for purchase of the wood in the first place, I would then calculate the cost of 2 pieces and send a cheque in full and final settlement of the case.....and then their chance if winning is reduced and their chance of being awarded costs is reduced so then let them take their chances over a few bucks.

But whilst you are involved in multiple disputes with this neighbour it is really important that you retain decorum and follow Civil Procedure Rules and behave impeccably and correspond in a reasonable manner that suggests resolution is your aim. Making outrageous claims for personal time or protesting that you are acting for yourself makes you look unfocused on dispute resolution.


Good sound advice Mr Sheen. This need not escalate into all out war. Just needs to be dealt with efficiently as this is ultimately a distraction away from the main issue... The ROW!
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