Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby MacadamB53 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:07 pm

Hi stressederic,

are you saying that it is not the 5m width that is the problem per se, but it's location along the shared boundary?

i.e. you would not have the same problem if they'd put the post in before the point of access was moved?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby mr sheen » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:21 pm

stressederic wrote:
mr sheen wrote:
Doubt they will move it again since they are complying with the exact terms of the contract so they have nothing to gain by moving them again. In any case, you can only deal with that if it ever occurs, no place in law for what might happen.


Whats to say the original siting of the 5m wide ROW wasn't complying with the contract in the first place?


If you wish to claim this, then the burden of proof is yours otherwise it will be assumed as currently undisputed.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby stressederic » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:33 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi stressederic,

are you saying that it is not the 5m width that is the problem per se, but it's location along the shared boundary?

i.e. you would not have the same problem if they'd put the post in before the point of access was moved?

Kind regards, Mac


Yes, this is pretty much it. The posts would still cause it to be tight exercising the full 5m row(just because of the angle of attack within the 5m row) but would allow me to exercise the row ie accessing on and off my land/drive.

another thought ive had and yeah shoot me down but if this does proceed to court, could the question be asked if damage and or tresspass was such an issue to the other side then why is the entire verge not fenced off in some form...yes, i know they can do as they want its their land,but it could be said that this display of behaviour demonstrates their unreasonableness?
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby MacadamB53 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:54 pm

stressederic wrote:
MacadamB53 wrote:Hi stressederic,

are you saying that it is not the 5m width that is the problem per se, but it's location along the shared boundary?

i.e. you would not have the same problem if they'd put the post in before the point of access was moved?

Kind regards, Mac


Yes, this is pretty much it. The posts would still cause it to be tight exercising the full 5m row(just because of the angle of attack within the 5m row) but would allow me to exercise the row ie accessing on and off my land/drive.

another thought ive had and yeah shoot me down but if this does proceed to court, could the question be asked if damage and or tresspass was such an issue to the other side then why is the entire verge not fenced off in some form...yes, i know they can do as they want its their land,but it could be said that this display of behaviour demonstrates their unreasonableness?
is any of the rest of the verge being regularly/frequently trespassed over? (just curious - it's a moot point as far as the strength of your claim is concerned)
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby stressederic » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:45 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:
stressederic wrote:
MacadamB53 wrote:Hi stressederic,

are you saying that it is not the 5m width that is the problem per se, but it's location along the shared boundary?

i.e. you would not have the same problem if they'd put the post in before the point of access was moved?

Kind regards, Mac


Yes, this is pretty much it. The posts would still cause it to be tight exercising the full 5m row(just because of the angle of attack within the 5m row) but would allow me to exercise the row ie accessing on and off my land/drive.

another thought ive had and yeah shoot me down but if this does proceed to court, could the question be asked if damage and or tresspass was such an issue to the other side then why is the entire verge not fenced off in some form...yes, i know they can do as they want its their land,but it could be said that this display of behaviour demonstrates their unreasonableness?
is any of the rest of the verge being regularly/frequently trespassed over? (just curious - it's a moot point as far as the strength of your claim is concerned)



well i guess it depends on interpretation of where the verge and driveway meet...it also becomes more difficult to distinguish when its wet and muddy and the verge and driveway boundary is 'muddied up'...and you can see tyre marks on this muddy area (this is more in apparent in the winter months)...but it is clearly actually driven on by the land owners and their deliveries and their guests etc as i have witnessed. Which is what the frustrating part of it is, as the posts have clearly been put there to make my life difficult...they obviously dont care about the damage on the rest of the verge.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby MacadamB53 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:42 pm

Hi stressederic,

it is clearly actually driven on by the land owners and their deliveries and their guests etc

none of that is a trespass - which is what I asked about.

the hard truth is you own some land which, at present, you find difficult to access in your vehicle of choice because of the access route rather than because there's some posts nearby.

you need to accept that removing the posts will not change the situation (unless you're intention is to trespass).

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby ukmicky » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:35 am

You were obviously previously allowed to cut into the verge in front of your gate as you had to cross it to get from the lane to your drive . Does you actual plan specify or show that the cut out in the verge must be at a 90 degree angle from your gate. Was there anything saying the cutout into the verge couldn't be slanted.

Can you post a copy of the title plan ,its very easy to cover up anything which may identify you or your property.
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby arborlad » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:47 am

mr sheen wrote:Doubt they will move it again since they are complying with the exact terms of the contract so they have nothing to gain by moving them again. In any case, you can only deal with that if it ever occurs, no place in law for what might happen.




...........but are they, if you argue that the 5m width must be complied with - so must the location of that 5m.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:06 pm

arborlad wrote:
mr sheen wrote:Doubt they will move it again since they are complying with the exact terms of the contract so they have nothing to gain by moving them again. In any case, you can only deal with that if it ever occurs, no place in law for what might happen.




...........but are they, if you argue that the 5m width must be complied with - so must the location of that 5m.
and how the 5m is being measured may have an impact if the land isn't level...
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby stressederic » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:49 pm

The plan attached to the property shows the access across the verge ie the 5m row is at a right angle to the driveway. Which was fine until a)the posts where put on the boundary of the the row and driveway and b) the row location was moved. This meaning i cannot exercise the entire row to access on and off my land due to the lay of the land.

Regarding the location of the row. I denoted the location of the 5m wide row by means of taking measurements from the scale plan from 3 fixed points. 3 years later and my neighbours decide to move the location of the 5m wide by a meter or so. No notification was given or correspondence stating my denotation of the ROW was incorrect. They suddenly got up one day and decided my denotation of the row was incorrect and put the posts where they wanted them to be. Also, the current position of the 5m row has benefited them by making access to their land easier. basically they have access point to their land more or less next to my access point...by moving the posts to their current position it makes accessing their land easier. I should have drawn that on my drawing but didn't think it was needed...i had my blinkers on for restricting my row alone.


MacadamB53 wrote:
arborlad wrote:
mr sheen wrote:Doubt they will move it again since they are complying with the exact terms of the contract so they have nothing to gain by moving them again. In any case, you can only deal with that if it ever occurs, no place in law for what might happen.




...........but are they, if you argue that the 5m width must be complied with - so must the location of that 5m.
and how the 5m is being measured may have an impact if the land isn't level...


the land isnt level...the land runs down hill from right to left. so the right side of the 5m wide row is higher than the left side of the 5m row.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:03 pm

Hi stressederic,

measuring across from one post to the other along a level plane - is there a 5m gap between them?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby stressederic » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:12 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi stressederic,

measuring across from one post to the other along a level plane - is there a 5m gap between them?

Kind regards, Mac


Yes. its 5m.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:04 pm

stressederic wrote:
MacadamB53 wrote:Hi stressederic,

measuring across from one post to the other along a level plane - is there a 5m gap between them?

Kind regards, Mac


Yes. its 5m.
which means there's less than 5m between them when measured at the angle of the ground if the access hasn't been levelled - how far short though? or is the access level?
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby stressederic » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:37 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:
stressederic wrote:
MacadamB53 wrote:Hi stressederic,

measuring across from one post to the other along a level plane - is there a 5m gap between them?

Kind regards, Mac


Yes. its 5m.
which means there's less than 5m between them when measured at the angle of the ground if the access hasn't been levelled - how far short though? or is the access level?


the 5m wide row is not level...it follows the natual slope of the land in that area.

Why is it less than meters?
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby mugwump » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:48 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:
stressederic wrote:
MacadamB53 wrote:Hi stressederic,

measuring across from one post to the other along a level plane - is there a 5m gap between them?

Kind regards, Mac


Yes. its 5m.
which means there's less than 5m between them when measured at the angle of the ground if the access hasn't been levelled - how far short though? or is the access level?



Even if it isn't even you would not measure it based on a hypothetical level plane. That would need a survey to accurately measure the slope and then a touch of algebra. It's not something you would do.you measure as the land lies. Attempted to use your argument for a wider access is virtually guaranteed to fail.

Straw clutching comes to mind
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