Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby stressederic » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:44 am

Hi guys,

So a few updates.

regarding the right of way issue - still pending with solcitiors. FYI - solciitors visited site and still want to proceed. These things seem to take time!

This is where its getting a bit unreasonable!...

* I started a new thread on here in General forum (and so to keep transparency with everything going on i'll summarise); my neighbour has installed a cctv camera with audio recording on it abutting the boundary fence between our gardens, on their side. However the pole it is attached to is 4 meters high. This is clearly being done to capture any conversations I have in my garden.

* Im not sure if i mentioned it before but said neighbour has a Restraining Order on them for harassment against m

* Today (13th sep 2017) I have received a letter from neighbours solicitor saying i owe them money (£300) and must pay within 21 days.
They state i owe them money for some 30 lengths of 4.8m long 4x2 wood . Said wood had been abandoned on my land before i purchased the Property. This wood was still on my land post purchase. My neighbour 'gifted' me a couple of lengths of the wood for a job when we first moved in (this is when we got on). Then a few months later he removed the remaining 28 lengths from my land (after the relationship had started to become strained).

My questions;
It surely must be against some solicitors protocol to make up false allegations without having any evidence and sending a letter causing me grief? The letter provides no evidence other than a picture of a hand written letter from a year ago which i ignored. The hand written letter said i owe them for all the wood and need to pay within 7 days. I ignored it cos it was a complete lie.

More importantly was this said wood legally mine as it was on my land? I would love to reply to them saying it is in fact your client who owes me£300 for the wood after stealing it :-)

the cost of the wood is likley to be less then that of the solicitors costs in time and writing of the letter. I imagine the solicitor is laughing his **** off all the way to the bank!!
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:53 pm

Hi stressederic,

More importantly was this said wood legally mine as it was on my land?

not unless it was mentioned in the sales particulars.

kind regards, Mac
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby stressederic » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:22 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi stressederic,

More importantly was this said wood legally mine as it was on my land?

not unless it was mentioned in the sales particulars.

kind regards, Mac


no it wasnt. They left other stuff on my land too - which is basically junk and I had to get rid of it at my own expense.

So if someone leaves items on the Property which are not included in the sale particulars at what point does the owner of the land on which items have been left take ownership etc?

isnt possession 9/10ths of the law?!?!
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:23 pm

stressederic wrote:
MacadamB53 wrote:Hi stressederic,

More importantly was this said wood legally mine as it was on my land?

not unless it was mentioned in the sales particulars.

kind regards, Mac


no it wasnt. They left other stuff on my land too - which is basically junk and I had to get rid of it at my own expense.

So if someone leaves items on the Property which are not included in the sale particulars at what point does the owner of the land on which items have been left take ownership etc?

isnt possession 9/10ths of the law?!?!
when a person comes into possession of another person's property the law expects them to take reasonable steps to reunite the property with the owner.
to simply keep the items is technically a crime - theft.
this does not apply to land.

you did not have to dispose of the items at your expense at all - you could have notified the owner and taken them through the small claims court to recover the cost if they refused to collect.

kind regards, Mac
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby stressederic » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:00 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:
stressederic wrote:
MacadamB53 wrote:Hi stressederic,

More importantly was this said wood legally mine as it was on my land?

not unless it was mentioned in the sales particulars.

kind regards, Mac


no it wasnt. They left other stuff on my land too - which is basically junk and I had to get rid of it at my own expense.

So if someone leaves items on the Property which are not included in the sale particulars at what point does the owner of the land on which items have been left take ownership etc?

isnt possession 9/10ths of the law?!?!
when a person comes into possession of another person's property the law expects them to take reasonable steps to reunite the property with the owner.
to simply keep the items is technically a crime - theft.
this does not apply to land.

you did not have to dispose of the items at your expense at all - you could have notified the owner and taken them through the small claims court to recover the cost if they refused to collect.

kind regards, Mac


and who wants the expense and stress of going through small claims court...where if you have instructed a lawyer you will incur expensive legal costs which you wont get back. So the cost of disposing the items is much less then the legal route. This is the reality.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby Roblewis » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:04 pm

Mac

You are misdirecting yourself a little, the term property on sale means that all fixed and moveable items present at vacant possession transfer to the new owner UNLESS otherwise specified. The term property does not just include land and bricks and mortar etc. Having said that the neighbour claimed ownership of the timber gave the OP two lengths and took the rest away. The neighbour now needs to prove that the OP did not hand him the remainder of the timber and that the timber was in fact his.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:23 pm

Roblewis wrote:Mac

You are misdirecting yourself a little, the term property on sale means that all fixed and moveable items present at vacant possession transfer to the new owner UNLESS otherwise specified. The term property does not just include land and bricks and mortar etc. Having said that the neighbour claimed ownership of the timber gave the OP two lengths and took the rest away. The neighbour now needs to prove that the OP did not hand him the remainder of the timber and that the timber was in fact his.

ah, so I can ask friends, family etc. to dump their unwanted crap in my garden the day before exchange and it automatically becomes part of the sale and therefore not their crap anymore - thanks for the tip.

mischievous regards, Mac
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby stressederic » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:21 am

Roblewis wrote:Mac

You are misdirecting yourself a little, the term property on sale means that all fixed and moveable items present at vacant possession transfer to the new owner UNLESS otherwise specified. The term property does not just include land and bricks and mortar etc. Having said that the neighbour claimed ownership of the timber gave the OP two lengths and took the rest away. The neighbour now needs to prove that the OP did not hand him the remainder of the timber and that the timber was in fact his.


So, if we were to look at this from another angle. At vacant possession that wood became mine. Could I simply respond to his letter and say he stole the wood and it is infact him who owes me that sum of money? FYI - I have pictures of said wood from when i first moved in ie post completion.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby MacadamB53 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:30 am

Hi stressederic,

thought you best be referred to an official source of info before you get too excited :roll:

http://www.rics.org/uk/knowledge/glossa ... -chattels/

kind regards, Mac
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby Roblewis » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:53 pm

Mac
Sale occurs before completion and at completion vacant possession is given to the new owner and the previous owner ceases to hold rights to any items left at the premises unless as I said there is a previous agreement to the contrary. RICS are correct at the point of sale but this is not so at completion.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby stressederic » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:05 pm

Roblewis wrote:Mac
Sale occurs before completion and at completion vacant possession is given to the new owner and the previous owner ceases to hold rights to any items left at the premises unless as I said there is a previous agreement to the contrary. RICS are correct at the point of sale but this is not so at completion.


Is there anywhere i can get this info from?...

FYI - im planning on sending my own written letter back to their solicitor.

Do any of you with experience of writing such letters have any hints/tips/templates?

I would love to know how he plans on proving i took the wood in the first place (as i didnt) and where that wood is now. The fact is, my neighbour removed the wood from my land, post completion without my permission to a. enter my land and b. remove the wood (which if what is stated above is true - that would be theft).

In the letter from my neighbours solicitor they havent provided any evidence to support my neighbours allegation...it seems to me its bully boy tactics.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby MacadamB53 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:16 pm

Roblewis wrote:Mac
Sale occurs before completion and at completion vacant possession is given to the new owner and the previous owner ceases to hold rights to any items left at the premises unless as I said there is a previous agreement to the contrary. RICS are correct at the point of sale but this is not so at completion.
ah, I think I understand now - thanks.

an item left behind that was noted on the TA10 as "excluded" should be returned to the owner.
an item left behind that was not noted on the TA10 at all (and therefore not acknowledged as either "included" or "excluded") becomes included in the sale.

is that correct? surely not - something of high value might be left behind in error that the seller would not have thought to have noted on the TA10 form (e.g. an item of jewellery)

kind regards, Mac
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby Roblewis » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:37 pm

Mac

It is on such matters that lawyers make a lot of money. Contract Law has many intricacies and ultimately only a court will decide if it is reasonable to assume such an item was included in a sale. Defending the taking of an expensive personal effect because it was left post completion would be difficult but 30 lengths of timber - that is a different ball game.
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby stressederic » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:09 pm

Roblewis wrote:Mac

It is on such matters that lawyers make a lot of money. Contract Law has many intricacies and ultimately only a court will decide if it is reasonable to assume such an item was included in a sale. Defending the taking of an expensive personal effect because it was left post completion would be difficult but 30 lengths of timber - that is a different ball game.


sory to mis-understand the above but is this good or bad for me?..

to take such a matter to small claims court would leave my neighbour out of pocket even if he won. Then there is the point that this is a completely fabricated allegation.

Given what i've told you - where do I stand and what should be my net move with regard to this claim?
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Re: Obstructing my right of way outside of the right of way

Postby stressederic » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:16 am

Would any of you be able to help with the response letter to my neighbours solicitor please?

To confirm, the allegation made is totally fabricated and he will have no evidence/proof of me taking this wood...as it never happened!

Also, just to understand the process of such claims (all be it fabricated) - If he decided to proceed with this to court would it be the small claims court (as its less than 10k) and would he be able to claim back his legal fees from me if he won?

Thanks.
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