Right of Way - wording, placement, and scope

Right of Way - wording, placement, and scope

Postby clockpunk » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:05 am

Hi all,

This board has been a great resource during some recent research, and although I believe I have managed to piece together an answer to a few issues I am having with a neighbour, it always helps to get additional perspectives.

The wording : 'the front of the building previously described and the rear of the said land edged red' is 'accessible for all purposes connected to the property and associated land thereby conveyed'

Query : given the wording provided above, how would the placement of the the rear RoW be interpreted by most? (I.e. Inside the boundary or just outside it).

Given the specific distinction between the placement of of the RoWs measured in terms against the house and the back yard, the fact that a pathway immediately behind the yards is in regular use (privately owned, driven down), and was *likely* (cannot claim with absolute certainty) the delivery point for coal, etc, to adjoining properties further down the row (all 18th century former mining cottages).

Any interpretative advice would be greatly appreciated.
clockpunk
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:31 pm

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 

Re: Right of Way - wording, placement, and scope

Postby SwitchRich » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:38 am

So you are wanting the ROW to be down this path rather that through your garden?
Is there not a shaded area referred to in yours or you neighbours deeds?
SwitchRich
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:34 am

Re: Right of Way - wording, placement, and scope

Postby clockpunk » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:58 am

I have no objection to the RoW through the back garden itself (long a prescription now), but if the original RoW was down the path outside the garden, it gives scope for development (building a small garage that would not impact this later route - if that makes sense?). Annoyingly the very early maps have been lost somewhere over the years, but I do have hand annotated maps dating from the late 80s to present day (most recent one made by previous owner in2015 as a term of our purchase) that all show the route as being the path outside the property bounds.

But that wording in the op (the rear of the land) is the one constant dating back to the 30s.
clockpunk
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Right of Way - wording, placement, and scope

Postby Collaborate » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:28 pm

Isn't it likely that the ROW will have taken the form of a path, and that previous owners of your property will have walled off at the boundary of the ROW?
Collaborate
 
Posts: 1124
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:17 am

Re: Right of Way - wording, placement, and scope

Postby arborlad » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:41 pm

clockpunk wrote:Query : given the wording provided above, how would the placement of the the rear RoW be interpreted by most? (I.e. Inside the boundary or just outside it).




Absence any other information, it has to be the latter - you don't need and can't have an easement over your own land.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
arborlad
 
Posts: 7386
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Right of Way - wording, placement, and scope

Postby clockpunk » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:09 pm

That makes sense (re: not having easement over own land).

And there was a wall built in the 80's on the boundary line (presumably due to the difficulties with the farmer who owned the land at the time) - but that is conjecture on my part right now. It is that I intend to take down so as to be able to drive into the planned garage-port should all proceed to plan.

It is just that 'rear of land edged red' wording that I fear could be open to interpretation in the earlier conveyances without a map... but as the same descriptive paragraph distinguishes between the land and building that the intent was similarly distinct (I would presume that if it meant the rear garden itself, the current path used by neighbours right in front of the houses, it would have been worded as 'front and rear of the dwellinghouse' which it isn't - but I would appreciate the opinions anyone more in the know on such matters, if possible please).

Thank you for the replies already.
clockpunk
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Right of Way - wording, placement, and scope

Postby Collaborate » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:29 pm

The ROW will be outside of the donee's property but within the boundary of the donor's. You don't make clear whether you are donor or donee of the ROW.
Collaborate
 
Posts: 1124
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:17 am

Re: Right of Way - wording, placement, and scope

Postby MacadamB53 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:01 pm

Collaborate wrote:The ROW will be outside of the donee's property but within the boundary of the donor's. You don't make clear whether you are donor or donee of the ROW.
+1
MacadamB53
 
Posts: 6034
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:13 am

Re: Right of Way - wording, placement, and scope

Postby clockpunk » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:28 am

Sorry, to clarify the situation I am interested in determining the original route taken by the RoW that benefits our property. We do have maps with the field path outside the garden itself marked and coloured by previous owners dating back to 1988, and an earlier map for the 70s that accompanies a conveyance that features the wording 'front of the building and rear of the land edged in red' that has also been marked to show the path outside the boundaries of the garden - if the current farmer who owns the field becomes difficult, could their personal interpretation of this fuzzy wording (and long-running use of the other route inside the garden boundaries of nether houses - which was done so believe in error, but is now an additional indisputable prescriptive right) perhaps trump these original maps?
clockpunk
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Right of Way - wording, placement, and scope

Postby MacadamB53 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:10 am

clockpunk wrote:Sorry, to clarify the situation I am interested in determining the original route taken by the RoW that benefits our property. We do have maps with the field path outside the garden itself marked and coloured by previous owners dating back to 1988, and an earlier map for the 70s that accompanies a conveyance that features the wording 'front of the building and rear of the land edged in red' that has also been marked to show the path outside the boundaries of the garden - if the current farmer who owns the field becomes difficult, could their personal interpretation of this fuzzy wording (and long-running use of the other route inside the garden boundaries of nether houses - which was done so believe in error, but is now an additional indisputable prescriptive right) perhaps trump these original maps?
the only thing that will trump the RoW as granted by deed is a deed extinguishing the RoW or an act on the part of the dominant owner (you and your predecessors in this instance) which is deemed to show an intent to abandon the RoW forever (this is very, very, very hard to show to the satisfaction of a court).

kind regards, Mac
MacadamB53
 
Posts: 6034
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:13 am

Re: Right of Way - wording, placement, and scope

Postby clockpunk » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:45 am

There's nothing like that (with our deeds at least) - and given how previous owners seem to have been careful about documenting things, I have to presume there's no extinguishment. Thanks for that info, MacadamB53. I presume the maps that accompany a conveyance cannot be easily dismissed? (I.e the owner of the servient field cannot say they have all been made in error over the years, by different users, and the wording takes precedence)? Thank you again for your reassuring advice.
clockpunk
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Right of Way - wording, placement, and scope

Postby Collaborate » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:57 am

Is the servient land the farmer's field or the house next door? Might be worthwhile getting office copy entries for next door to check, and the field if that is registered.
Collaborate
 
Posts: 1124
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:17 am

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 

Return to Rights of Way

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests