Welsh govt. doubles council tax for English owners

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Re: Welsh govt. doubles council tax for English owners

Postby jonahinoz » Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:33 pm

Hi,

The thought has crossed my mind, that people from England (not necessarily English, could be a Welsh entrepreneur retiring back to Wales) can afford to outbid the local residents, because they have sold a house in England. But how much has the value of the English house been influenced by the influx job seekers from the Regions.

Due to personal circumstances, we had to move from South Wales to the East Midlands. Circumstances decreed that we should buy before selling. Try getting a mortgage when you are in your 70s. But we managed.

This was the house we were trying to sell. Four bedroom, living room 22 x 17, kitchen 15 x 10, downstairs shower room, utility room, upstairs bathroom, gas central heating, garden, garage, low flood risk.

Image[/URL]

We eventually accepted an offer of £76,000 almost a year to the day after we moved. Yes we could have rented it to a homeless family. Would you have indemnified us for any damage they did to our house? We would have had to pay income tax on the rent (no loan to offset). I don't know if we would have had to pay CGT.

There is not a housing shortage in the area where we lived. There is a shortage of people prepared to pay a fair rent. And there is an abundance of potential tenants who do not know how, or care, to look after a house.

We paid no Council Tax for first six months, and 50% from then on. My wife was born in Swansea, my grandfather was an oyster fisherman in Swansea bay, but I don't think that made any difference.

If you are prepared to forego a new car, and foreign holidays, and all the trappings of Yuppyism, you can buy a house.

John W
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Re: Welsh govt. doubles council tax for English owners

Postby JohnP1950 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:36 pm

span wrote:Go on, do it ... how much longer has she got to live anyway?

How would you feel if your elderly parents were forced to give up their home to someone considered more worthy of occupying it? Who is fit to make that judgement?
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Re: Welsh govt. doubles council tax for English owners

Postby mr sheen » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:22 pm

The title is entirely inaccurate. English people have not been singled out for unfair treatment in Wales which would be illegal.

There is a shortage of homes throughout the UK. Wales also has this problem as well as a substantial homeless population and families living in inadequate B&B accommodation with young children. Good on the Welsh Government to seek ways of addressing the homeless and poor housing issues by seeking to persuade owners of empty properties to sell or let them by charging them a levy to leave it empty whilst thousands live in boxes on the streets. Hopefully other UK govt will follow suit.

However....back to the title and original post....extreme distortion of the reality and blatantly implies discriminatory practice and could be considered to be seeking to create racial tensions.
Last edited by mr sheen on Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Welsh govt. doubles council tax for English owners

Postby COGGY » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:24 pm

Surely if you visit the property regularly with your mother it does not fit the description of being
unocupied full time AND which remain "substantially furnished".
. Have you actually received notification that the property will be classed as such, or are you simply assuming so?
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Re: Welsh govt. doubles council tax for English owners

Postby jonahinoz » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:01 pm

Hi,

So somebody serving a custodial sentence for a couple of years will also find a big bill awaiting his release? So will a Serviceman serving abroad on a two year tour.

Try asking the council if they have the resources to support an elderly lady who might soon need residential care? Don't tell them she would never consider it.

John W
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Re: Welsh govt. doubles council tax for English owners

Postby JohnP1950 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:57 am

mr sheen wrote:The title is entirely inaccurate. English people have not been singled out for unfair treatment in Wales which would be illegal.

There is a shortage of homes throughout the UK. Wales also has this problem as well as a substantial homeless population and families living in inadequate B&B accommodation with young children. Good on the Welsh Government to seek ways of addressing the homeless and poor housing issues by seeking to persuade owners of empty properties to sell or let them by charging them a levy to leave it empty whilst thousands live in boxes on the streets. Hopefully other UK govt will follow suit.

However....back to the title and original post....extreme distortion of the reality and blatantly implies discriminatory practice and could be considered to be seeking to create racial tensions.

The information conveyed in the title is limited by the number of characters available. However, it does say substantially what is happening. Most second homes in Wales (this part at least) are English owned. In that respect the new tax law meshes very nicely with the anti-English sentiment which is prevalent in many oarts of Wales. Don't tell me is isn't - I have experienced it first hand many times. I don't say that lightly because I am half Welsh myself.

You seem to be assuming the property is left empty. It isn't. My mother still uses it, just not full time. In your world, what degree of "unoccupation" would you consider acceptable?

So you think that if my Mother did sell up, sombody currently living in a B&B or a cardboard box on the street, as you put it, would magically be able to move in. Get real. It would be sold to someone who could afford to buy it. You seem to be living in cloud cuckoo land.
Last edited by JohnP1950 on Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Welsh govt. doubles council tax for English owners

Postby JohnP1950 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:01 am

COGGY wrote:Surely if you visit the property regularly with your mother it does not fit the description of being
unocupied full time AND which remain "substantially furnished".
. Have you actually received notification that the property will be classed as such, or are you simply assuming so?

We have been told by the LA that that's the case as Mom doesn't live there full time.

It's a devastating blow for her at her age. It's not as though she owns two homes. She only owns this one (it's no palace, just a small bungalow) but as it is not in full time occupation it is apparently classed as a second home under the law passed by the Welsh Assembly in 2014.

It is classed as a second home only because it is in Wales. Other parts of the UK don't have such unjust laws. If they did, how would European migrants to England fare I wonder. Consider a Polish woman with a main home in Warsaw and living, for some of the year, in Halifax. She would be taxed more heavily than an English person living next door. There would rightly be uproar against the "racist" English government. How is this situation any different? It is a racist tax borne of misplaced envy and nationalism. It is also a tax which deters freedom of movement within the EU.

My mother's not even allowed to vote in Welsh elections, yet they can still tax her twice as heavily as people who have the vote. "No taxation without representation" doesn't seem to apply in Wales. Is that democracy?
Last edited by JohnP1950 on Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Welsh govt. doubles council tax for English owners

Postby JohnP1950 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:18 am

jonahinoz wrote:Hi,

So somebody serving a custodial sentence for a couple of years will also find a big bill awaiting his release? So will a Serviceman serving abroad on a two year tour...

John W

No, John. I understand that armed forces personnel, as well as people in prison, are exempt from this additional tax.
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Re: Welsh govt. doubles council tax for English owners

Postby COGGY » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:28 am

The name you have given your post suggests that it is only English people that this rule applies to. Surely it would be the same for Welsh people who had a house in a similar situation. You have not made any mention of the House Insurance which your mother pays. From my experience (three bereavements in the last six years where I was Executor) the insurance premium payable on an empty house is much higher. Many Insurance Companies are not prepared to give insurance on empty properties and those that are willing to do so normally stipulate that the property be inspected regularly, sometimes once a week, often more than this. Failure to comply with this makes the insurance void.
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Re: Welsh govt. doubles council tax for English owners

Postby thin and crispy » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:59 am

I read recently that 93% of holiday homes in Wales are owned by English people. If that and JohnP's posts are correct, the tax would seem to be the very definition of racism!
Prejudice, not being founded on reason, cannot be removed by argument. Samuel Johnson.
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Re: Welsh govt. doubles council tax for English owners

Postby JohnP1950 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:05 am

COGGY wrote:The name you have given your post suggests that it is only English people that this rule applies to. Surely it would be the same for Welsh people who had a house in a similar situation. You have not made any mention of the House Insurance which your mother pays. From my experience (three bereavements in the last six years where I was Executor) the insurance premium payable on an empty house is much higher. Many Insurance Companies are not prepared to give insurance on empty properties and those that are willing to do so normally stipulate that the property be inspected regularly, sometimes once a week, often more than this. Failure to comply with this makes the insurance void.

Hello Coggy. I didn't want to mislead with the title but as I said before, I'm restricted to just a few characters, and I wanted to put the essentials in there. It's true that Welsh people are subject to the same tax, but the majority of "second" homes in Wales are English-owned, which is the situation I was trying to convey in the title. Hopefully the post itself is more informative. English second homes are something that the Welsh have historically hated (hence my reference to Meibion Glyndwr of the 1970s), and this is clearly the context in which the tax must be seen, and it is why I see it as nationalistic and racially motivated. Clearly not everybody agrees with me, but that's their prerogative.

You're right about the insurance. We do have to carry out an inspection every 60 days. If Mom's not well enough to go with me, I or another family member will drive down for the day. We did have some difficulty finding an insurer, but Mom is now with Key Connect, and they charge a very reasonable premium (less than £300 pa for building + contents).
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Re: Welsh govt. doubles council tax for English owners

Postby thin and crispy » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:06 am

I read recently that 93% of holiday homes in Wales are owned by English people. If that and JohnP's posts are correct, the tax would seem to be the very definition of racism!
Prejudice, not being founded on reason, cannot be removed by argument. Samuel Johnson.
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Re: Welsh govt. doubles council tax for English owners

Postby thin and crispy » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:06 am

I read recently that 93% of holiday homes in Wales are owned by English people. If that and JohnP's posts are correct, the tax would seem to be the very definition of racism!
Prejudice, not being founded on reason, cannot be removed by argument. Samuel Johnson.
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Re: Welsh govt. doubles council tax for English owners

Postby mr sheen » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:19 am

No don't live in 'cloud cuckoo land' but WALES! .....and....guess what?.....yes...English!
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Re: Welsh govt. doubles council tax for English owners

Postby mugwump » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:54 am

From the House of Commons Library
http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ ... ry/SN02857

So it is not a Welsh vendetta against the English
From 1 April 2013, local authorities in England may also set an ‘empty homes premium’ for long-term empty properties. Properties which have been unoccupied and substantially unfurnished for over two years may be charged up to 150% of the normal liability. In Scotland, the premium may be applied after one year and the total charge may be up to 200% of the normal liability. In Wales, provisions equivalent to those in Scotland are awaiting commencement by the National Assembly.

So devolved governments (Scotland & Wales) are going for the big hit of 100% extra.
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