Problem with existing water pipe

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Problem with existing water pipe

Postby farmyard » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:35 pm

Hi

Whilst reading through the forum I could not see any topics relating to the recent problem I am having & wondered if anyone could give me some advice. I have a small holding which has a water pipe running through the land 1.5" Class C low density tube, on the Land registry my father signed a deed in 1985 for the owners over from our field to "cleansing, maintaining, repairing, renewing & replacing" the said pipe. This pipe used to service 1 small house as the water mains is on the highway next to my field. I have had the previous owner approach me in a very rude & bullying fashion threatening to take me to court should I refuse entry, which I did as my cows are grazing there. The original owner asked my father in the 90s on a few occasions & he and my late husband both refused. The owner has now sold the land to developers who have 3 houses nearly finished and they are now asking the same question, after many rude calls from the builder & a letter from the builders solicitor they are now asking would I take compensation, basically without coming through my land they will have no other way to water to service 3 x 5 bedroom houses. The large blue pipe is now hanging over my fence with 3 x separate smaller blue pipes inside it, which I imagine are to supply the 3 new houses and not the original 1 small house. It may sound petty, however, if they had been a little more polite and not so rude I would have let them, although it would have meant finding other land to graze the cows we possibly could have got around this, any advice please would be appreciated
Last edited by farmyard on Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Problem with existing water pipe

Postby despair » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:45 pm

As i understand things like drains or supplies the consideration is normally based on 50% of what it would cost for them to install things without going through your land

I suggest you need to seek advice from a good land specialist solicitor who can tell you the long term validity f what your father signed

I think your deeds would need altering before those houses can be sold and the developer needs to pick up the costs of that being done
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Re: Problem with existing water pipe

Postby Collaborate » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:08 pm

So the deed gives your neighbour the right to maintain etc the pipe yet you still have previously refused what? Permission to enter to repair?

They can't make the pipe wider without your express permission. Time to see how much it is worth to them.
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Re: Problem with existing water pipe

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:19 pm

Hi farmyard,

unless the deed stated otherwise, the owner of the neighbouring land doesn't need to ask your permission to repair/maintain the existing pipe or to replace it like-for-like.

kind regards, Mac
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Re: Problem with existing water pipe

Postby span » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:37 pm

Reckon you're all missing the guys point here.


It's not access for servicing or maintaining a 1.5" pipe that serves one house that's in question but

Developers want to increase the burden to serve 3 houses.
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Re: Problem with existing water pipe

Postby Collaborate » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:40 pm

span wrote:Reckon you're all missing the guys point here.


It's not access for servicing or maintaining a 1.5" pipe that serves one house that's in question but

Developers want to increase the burden to serve 3 houses.


OP mentions numerous occasions where access in the past has been denied, apparently contravening the neighbour's rights.

Don't think I missed the OP's point about them wanting to widen the pipe.
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Re: Problem with existing water pipe

Postby ukmicky » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:31 pm

As the others have said along with the permission to lay the pipe the ancillary right to maintain and repair was also granted They can’t replace it with a larger pipe but can enter, dig it up and renew if it requires it.

The fact that the original pipe will now serve 3 houses instead will not increase the burden over the Serviant tennament unless they wish to increase the size of the pipe.

However common sense needs to be used here because there is already a pipe in place and the size of the pipe required to serve 3 properties will not increase by much and if they are prepared to compensate take the money and allow it .

In the end It’s a cows field and it probably can be completed in less than a day and returned back to its original state within 24 hours. As farmer you probably have a piece of machinery that could dig the trench for them in 20 minutes and could even offer to do it for a small extra fee. In other words don’t be difficult just to be difficult and remember they allready have the right to dig up your field and expose the original pipe without your permission.
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: Problem with existing water pipe

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:06 am

ukmicky wrote:As the others have said along with the permission to lay the pipe the ancillary right to maintain and repair was also granted They can’t replace it with a larger pipe but can enter, dig it up and renew if it requires it.

The fact that the original pipe will now serve 3 houses instead will not increase the burden over the Serviant tennament unless they wish to increase the size of the pipe.

However common sense needs to be used here because there is already a pipe in place and the size of the pipe required to serve 3 properties will not increase by much and if they are prepared to compensate take the money and allow it .

In the end It’s a cows field and it probably can be completed in less than a day and returned back to its original state within 24 hours. As farmer you probably have a piece of machinery that could dig the trench for them in 20 minutes and could even offer to do it for a small extra fee. In other words don’t be difficult just to be difficult and remember they allready have the right to dig up your field and expose the original pipe without your permission.
+1 well put - once the penny drops that your permission is not required to dig up the field to repair/maintain/replace the existing pipe, you might realise that you may as well allow the "upgrade" for a fee - essentially free money.
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Re: Problem with existing water pipe

Postby span » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:29 pm

Supposing OP has an irrational (or rational, I dunno!) fear or hatred of 3 houses being built there and this is his only method of control.

What then?
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Re: Problem with existing water pipe

Postby SwitchRich » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:34 pm

ukmicky wrote:As the others have said along with the permission to lay the pipe the ancillary right to maintain and repair was also granted They can’t replace it with a larger pipe but can enter, dig it up and renew if it requires it.

The fact that the original pipe will now serve 3 houses instead will not increase the burden over the Serviant tennament unless they wish to increase the size of the pipe.

However common sense needs to be used here because there is already a pipe in place and the size of the pipe required to serve 3 properties will not increase by much and if they are prepared to compensate take the money and allow it .

In the end It’s a cows field and it probably can be completed in less than a day and returned back to its original state within 24 hours. As farmer you probably have a piece of machinery that could dig the trench for them in 20 minutes and could even offer to do it for a small extra fee. In other words don’t be difficult just to be difficult and remember they allready have the right to dig up your field and expose the original pipe without your permission.


Nicely put!
So what would the forum suggest as a fee? Perhaps £1000?
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Re: Problem with existing water pipe

Postby span » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:11 pm

I suggest OP does what he likes within the constraints of his rights and obligations.
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Re: Problem with existing water pipe

Postby farmyard » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:22 pm

Hi all
Thank you for all your responses in answer yes they can renew the pipe that's there however they came at me like a bull in a China shop threatening me with court & legal fees when I have been led to believe they are really asking to do something not aloud which is add this new service pipe which is 5 times bigger with 3 services through! I'm a reasonable woman & if I was asked with more respect & less bullying tactics then I would have aloud them however they are making over a million out of the sales & without me have no water supplies for there new builds, so why not offer a little more than the grief they are dishing out. My late husband & father would turn in there graves if they could see how I'm being treated right now, a very stressed lady
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Re: Problem with existing water pipe

Postby span » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:56 pm

farmyard wrote:Hi all
Thank you for all your responses in answer yes they can renew the pipe that's there however they came at me like a bull in a China shop threatening me with court & legal fees when I have been led to believe they are really asking to do something not aloud which is add this new service pipe which is 5 times bigger with 3 services through! I'm a reasonable woman & if I was asked with more respect & less bullying tactics then I would have aloud them however they are making over a million out of the sales & without me have no water supplies for there new builds, so why not offer a little more than the grief they are dishing out. My late husband & father would turn in there graves if they could see how I'm being treated right now, a very stressed lady


All you guys still ok with asking for a grand, or maybe you want to revise that figure?
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Re: Problem with existing water pipe

Postby SwitchRich » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:18 am

Perhaps put another zero on the £1000?
I only suggested that sum by pulling it out of thin air!
If there is a million pound profit being made by these houses then go for more. Especially if they are being nasty and trying to bulldoze the situation.
But it may get nasty for you which is probably not what you want.
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