Property deeds

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Postby w3526602 » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:00 am

Hi Marym,

Are you saying that the Land Registry holds copies(?) of all the documents that went towards producing the modern Land Register? So even if the deeds were subsequently lost, a record still exists at LR?

602
602 (That was my "last three")
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Postby Conveyancer » Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:11 pm

The Land Registry sometimes retain copies of pre-registration documents. They usually do that if it is more convenient to refer to the document on the register rather than set out its provisions in full. If they do that the register will show that a copy is filed. Other than that, the Land Registry do not retain copies of documents produced on first registration.
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Re: Property deeds

Postby Grenze » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:17 am

I expect to have paid off my mortgage debt within the next two months. My house isn't registered with LR, so from the comments made in this thread it seems like the title documents/deeds, call them what you will, are of particular importance. I'm open to advice !

"Deeds" apart, what can I expect from the Halifax when the debt is paid ? It is an everyday thing for them, of course, but for me it will be one of the biggest days of my life and I'll be breaking out the champers and hiring the local Morris Side to perform on the lawn. Do lenders issue some form of document confirming the final settlement ?
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Re: Property deeds

Postby Conveyancer » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:46 am

If your property is unregistered then the deeds certainly will be important. It would be wise to deposit them with your solicitor or bank for safe keeping.

The Halifax will complete the receipt endorsed on the mortgage deed and this will be evidence that the mortgage has been paid off.
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Re: Property deeds

Postby lois2409 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:09 pm

Hi
Not sure if I am posting in the right forum/topic. Hope I am, I think I am!
Could anyone please clarify something for me. We have a 4.5 acre paddock that we purchased with our property. The property (house) is under one Title Register and the field/paddock/land is under another Title Register. It is the Title Register of the field that I am looking for some guidance on. Within the Title Register for the field there is a covenant that reads as follows:

"The Transferee hereby covenants with the Transferor that neither he nor his successors in title will use or permit the said land hereby transferred to be used other than as a garden or agricultural land"

We have lived here for 16 years and other than walk our dogs round the field, allow a local family to keep their horses on and allow the local farmer to put his sheep on to graze the field we have never done anything else to the field as we have never wanted to nor needed to. We are now looking to sell our property and land and I've had a couple of viewers already ask if they can put a small stable block and storage on the field, another viewer has asked if they can put a storage shed on to house a tractor mower and I am unsure as to what to say other than, it is agricultural land and any type of structure I would have thought would mean obtaining the relevant planning permission from the LPA.

However, since recently noticing this covenant within the Title Register to the field, I am now wondering that even if planning consent was approved for any of the above by the LPA, would this covenant be breached?

As it states that the land can only be used for garden or agricultural land, is putting a garden shed up, a stable, a tractor storage a breach of this covenant. It does not refer in the title register to not being able to construct an agricultural type building or a garden shed that could both be argued are used for garden and agricultural land.

If anyone can please clarify this I would be grateful and if it were your land you were selling and a potential purchaser asked you if you could put up a stable for horses or storage to house a tractor mower what would be your reply?

Thanks for reading and look forward to receiving your thoughts and views on this.
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Re: Property deeds

Postby stufe35 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:20 pm

Louis, you need to start your own thread. Press the new topic button
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Re: Property deeds

Postby lois2409 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:47 pm

stufe35 wrote:Louis, you need to start your own thread. Press the new topic button


Thanks for the advice. Where is the new topic button?
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Re: Property deeds

Postby lois2409 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:50 pm

lois2409 wrote:
stufe35 wrote:Louis, you need to start your own thread. Press the new topic button


Thanks for the advice. Where is the new topic button?


Think I have found it and posted it in a new topic! Thanks for guiding me.
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Re: Property deeds

Postby cleo5 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:00 pm

Old house deeds are no longer deemed necessary but they often provide a wealth of historical information and sometimes a paragraph or two from way back can solve a modern conveyancing problem.
Now Land Registry receives the deeds on registration of a property and if requested sends them back to the solicitor or destroys them or passes them elsewhere after use.
So if you want your full deeds back ask your solicitor to make sure they are returned to you on completion of registration. You can always lodge them back with your solicitor or bank(banks charge) for safe keeping. If you don't ask then you won't get.
If your house is bought through a mortgage then ask the mortgage lenders to retain the full deeds after registration with the LR.
People are often told "you only need the LR title deed plan. This may be true but the deeds are your property and who knows when a land dispute might occur.
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Re: Property deeds

Postby Collaborate » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:59 pm

I agree with Cleo.

Our LR deeds don't show the ownership of the boundaries, but the 1934 conveyance (first one after the house was built) does.

It also measures the boundary to the nearest inch. Literally.
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Re: Property deeds

Postby Conveyancer » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:51 pm

Collaborate wrote:Our LR deeds don't show the ownership of the boundaries, but the 1934 conveyance (first one after the house was built) does.


That is a bit unusual as declarations regarding boundaries are usually reproduced on the register. Does the conveyance contain such a declaration or is ownership just shown on the plan?

Collaborate wrote:It also measures the boundary to the nearest inch. Literally.


Not necessarily helpful. Have a look at these two threads:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3149

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2247
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Re: Property deeds

Postby Collaborate » Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:05 am

The 1938 conveyance makes particular reference to the plan and says that those walls and fences shown on the plan as party walls and fences are party walls and party fences. The Property Register repeats the declaration without repeating the plan, so without the original deed the PR is meaningless. Presumably a copy of ht plan is at the LR. It was first registered in 1978.
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Re: Property deeds

Postby Conveyancer » Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:08 pm

Collaborate wrote:The 1938 conveyance makes particular reference to the plan and says that those walls and fences shown on the plan as party walls and fences are party walls and party fences. The Property Register repeats the declaration without repeating the plan, so without the original deed the PR is meaningless. Presumably a copy of ht plan is at the LR. It was first registered in 1978.


If the plan is filed at the LR it will say so on the register. However, the plan may not be needed if the entry on the register describes the boundary involved, for example as being on the south.

It is also important to remember that declarations relating to party structures relate to the structures exisiting at the time of the conveyance. There is no guarantee that a wall has not been rebuilt in a different position. If rebuilt wholly on the land of one owner it will not be a party wall. If rebuilt straddling the boundary it will be a party wall, but only because it was rebuilt straddling the boundary. If there is a new wall and no one knows if it was built in the same position the assumption will have to be that it is a party wall.

Making fences party structures is a bad idea.
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Re: Property deeds

Postby Collaborate » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:23 am

Unfortunately no reference is made to the 1938 conveyance being filed. Luckily our solicitor sent us the pre-registration deeds, as at one time the neighbours thought the wall to be theirs and were contemplating painting it on our side. Not that I'd have let them even if it was their wall, but the fact it was proved to be a party wall did help.

Part of the boundary is a brick wall (an outhouse for both properties - on our side now demolished but the wall used as one side of a greenhouse), the rest was fence, but many decades ago part replaced by next door extending their outhouse along the same line as the original.

When the neighbours had, at joint cost, the rear fence replaced the contractor overlapped part of it (3 feet or so) wholly on our side of the extended outhouse wall as they couldn't be bothered cutting down to size one of the fence panels.
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Re: Property deeds

Postby Conveyancer » Thu May 19, 2016 11:53 pm

Collaborate wrote:The Property Register repeats the declaration without repeating the plan, so without the original deed the PR is meaningless.


So are you saying that what appears on the register does not indicate which boundary the declaration refers to?
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