What is the legal definition in planning for residential use

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Re: What is the legal definition in planning for residential

Postby Problems » Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:40 pm

My mate had a appeal a year ago about commercial use for retail property and he said planning inspector was quite willing to talk about things, LPA guy started spouting some rubbish and he told him to shut up lol , must of been a exception.
Think i have spotted another mistake by the council the stable block with surrounding land is its own planning unit alleged contravention was there.
The council have served the enforcement notice to cover the adjoining @6 acre as well which is a separate planning unit which no offence occurred
Surely that is not allowed ?

I have read every enforcement appeal on the planning site and i saw one similar where the inspector corrected it for that exact reason not to cover the adjoining plot.
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Re: What is the legal definition in planning for residential

Postby Problems » Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:55 pm

Anyone have a idea how to proceed with planning permission once this is sorted
Just considering my options
The stable block is brick built with tiled roof, the roof is typical stable style and extends 6ft past the walls on front elevation.
Leaving the possibility to brick the remaining 6ftx 30ft in subject to planning ?, its not enlarging the roof foot print does it require planning ? is it permitted development ?
I would like to extend length i know that requires planning but could i submit plans as agricultural building as thats what it will be used for.
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Re: What is the legal definition in planning for residential

Postby Problems » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:15 pm

Well planning inspector did his visit today, he had been to another enforcement appeal by the same council before mine, it was submitted six weeks after mine.
So they must arrange visits together.
They arrived different cars 20 mins apart , played it by the book no talking unless both parties were present ect.
Enforcement officer came in shoes pmsl confirmed he is the plank i thought he was moaned i never informed him he needed wellies.
Think it went really well hovered a bit about heating but he was on the ball.
Enforcement officer looked speechless in fact he was, not one comment took notes but when asked if he had anything to say by the inspector he said no ...lol
Face was priceless

Fingers crossed now
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Re: What is the legal definition in planning for residential

Postby Problems » Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:21 pm

Ahhh
Well appeal went in 3rd June 2015 delays must be getting bad at the planning inspectorate.
Noticed they no longer show visit date on search results now, wonder why the change ?
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Re: What is the legal definition in planning for residential

Postby Problems » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:00 pm

UPDATE - Finally got the enforcement appeal decision today

It was quashed on legal grounds - use was ancillary to agricultural use

I can not thank everyone enough that helped , especially the member that handled the whole appeal for me.
He made the council look like a YTS trainee
Would of been screwed without the help

Thought some of the inspectors comments about council omissions, lack of sworn statements and a confusing notice
summed council up quite well

The stress and the uncertainty was a real drain as its been going on since September 2014.
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Re: What is the legal definition in planning for residential

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:24 pm

Hi Problems,

I'm pleased for you - well done to you and well done your wingman.

All the very best, Mac
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Re: What is the legal definition in planning for residential

Postby Roblewis » Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:53 pm

Now time for a complaint to LA perhaps :D
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Re: What is the legal definition in planning for residential

Postby Problems » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:34 pm

Thanks Mac feel like someone has lifted a massive weight off my shoulders.
I can not take the credit without this site and my wingman it would of been game over i can not thank him enough
he handled everything for me can not be easy via email esp when person you are doing it for is stressed and sending
more information than was needed .

Did not realize at the time with it being written appeal you could not use video evidence.

While appeal was going on mate suggested that i send hard drives from CCTV recorders to a recovery place, as they write over existing recordings every month or so.
They recovered proof that i go home most nights, but better still two cameras have voice recorders.
Guess what they recovered , most of the officers conversation with me needless to say it was not as they claimed.
Blatent lies.

Planning inspector picked up no sworn statements about what they claimed i said at the visit.

Best bit was fact no mention whatsoever about any agricultural use by them, the retrospective planning permission i applied for
that some people thought may of been a bad move came up trumps because i never applied as they suggested.

But the inspector used the officers report from it which said goats grazing in paddock, maize planted in field and goats could use pens
as proof agricultural use was taking place before the enforcement notice was served.... made me chuckle he used their information as proof .

Roblewis think i will certainly put a complaint in
Considering more my business as been on hold for 18 months while this was ongoing and i can prove it was based on fabrication now.
Going to have a long think about what to do

Do not get me wrong i am happy and can move on am in process of submitting planning application for extension to the building
should get interesting now inspector said former stable so its agricultural, and planning is cheaper, if they refuse i will appeal anyway now.

Was interesting to see time difference planning appeals 3 months , my enforcement took nearly 10 months did notice enforcement appeals
that go on planning permission ground get delt with quicker as well

Thanks again to the member that submitted my enforcement appeal would like to at least acknowledge his username if he approves
Can not see how they can refuse now after some of the inspectors comments
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Re: What is the legal definition in planning for residential

Postby SwitchRich » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:19 am

What an amazing thread and story!
Have learnt so much from reading all this. And it's amazing to see all the help that some people on this site are prepared to give.
Thanks also to Problems who has been so diligent in updating! :)
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Re: What is the legal definition in planning for residential

Postby Problems » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:38 pm

Site went down for a while few posts got lost but at least it gives a insight in to things
To be honest without the help of a individual on here i would of been lost
And had great input from posters, it is a scary process until you have been through it
Cannot thank this site and people involved enough
Business has expanded and council have avoid me ...lol

Previous owners (horse stables) made the day room and submited a statement about its use
The alarming thing the same council served a enforcement notice on someone else,for having a day room with table chairs kettle ect
This council insist it needed planning permission and served them with a enforcement notice

Sadly they never appealed and removed items, couple of months later council did a visit room had two chairs in it
because they never appealed the enforcement notice Council took them to court for breach
Because it was in joint names husband and wife they were fined £3750 each and £1750 costs each
And the inspector that did my visit said its all permissible for stables, gutted for them
At least its included in my decision so people can refer to it
Problems
 
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Re: What is the legal definition in planning for residential

Postby Problems » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:08 pm

Here it is if it can help avoid anyone going through what i did - Government planning inspectors decision

6. Consequently, between 2003 and 2013 the evidence suggests that the site i.e. the paddocks, the stable block and other small shelters were a single planning unit being used for equine related purposes. A written statement from Mrs xxxx, the daughter of the previous owner, describes how the site was used during that period. 7. The written ‘statement of truth’ identifies that one section of the stable was fitted out and used by family members for seating, eating, cooking and occasionally sleeping in association with the equine related use. A sofa was provided for seating, table and chairs for eating, running water and electricity were provided, a few kitchen units were installed and a wardrobe was provided for storing changes of riding clothes. A microwave oven, kettle and toaster were provided for making food and drinks. An electric fire was used for heating. 8. From the information provided, the room was used predominantly at times when family members were on site riding or looking after the ponies. For example, the parents of Mrs xxxx looked after her young children in the room whilst she was riding or attending to other matters on site. The family would eat together whilst they were on site. Mrs xxxx states that she would stay overnight ‘on occasions’ if a horse was ill in order to provide medication. The statement does not specify how often this was but the term ‘on occasions’ suggests relatively infrequent use and that any overnight stays were dictated by a need to care for sick animals. 9. Although the statement is not a statutory declaration no contrary evidence has been presented that would lead me to doubt that version of events. On the balance of the evidence presented it seems to me that the use of the room was ancillary to the primary use of the stables and adjacent land for the keeping of ponies. To my mind, the use of a separate room away from animals to provide relatively warm shelter, an area to change clothes, or to eat meals is not unexpected or unreasonable if occupants were on site for any length of time.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/planninginspectorate 3
There was a clear functional relationship between the uses described and the main equine related use. 10. Consequently, the evidence before me suggests that the stables and associated land were used for the equine related purposes between 2003 and 2013. The use of the accommodation within the end room of the stables was ancillary to the primary use of the planning unit which was a single use covering the stables and associated land.
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