Fence Erected outside Boundary on Plan

Fence Erected outside Boundary on Plan

Postby Morgan Sweet » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:28 am

I have read the interesting advise regarding boundaries but remain confused. My son bought a parcel of land that the previous deceased owner had sold a section of to a neighbouring house owner to extend their garden. The plans clearly show the section involved being from point A running to point B. The agreement states that the neighbour was to erect a stock proof fence between the two points. Unfortunately in doing so the fence at Point B was moved approx. 10 yards further into the field than the plans show. The distance between point A and B being around 150 yards, this triangular piece has now been planted with leylandii trees (attached to the fence). I understand that there was a falling out about the position of the fence between the previous owner and the neighbour but it has remained in place for the last eight years. As my son bought the field with the fence in position has he to accept the boundary has now moved, or does the fence and trees planted on the land outside the agreed boundary become his property?
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Re: Fence Erected outside Boundary on Plan

Postby Collaborate » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:25 am

Even though 8 years has passed, if it is true that the siting of the fence was disputed from the moment it was erected, then your son is in the same position as the original owner. He will have 12 years from the date the fence was erected to challenge its position.

However the problem he faces is that, on the face of it, it can be argued that the 8 year delay is evidence of acquiescence by the previous owner with the position of the fence.

This is something that he could do with getting some specialist legal advice on. It would be very expensive to take the legal route. this is a link to a study by the MOJ into boundary disputes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -study.pdf
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Re: Fence Erected outside Boundary on Plan

Postby arborlad » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:53 am

Morgan Sweet wrote: Unfortunately in doing so the fence at Point B was moved approx. 10 yards further into the field than the plans show. The distance between point A and B being around 150 yards,




A bit over 1/2 acre, not an insignificant amount, is the remainder agricultural ?
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Re: Fence Erected outside Boundary on Plan

Postby Morgan Sweet » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:58 pm

Hello arborlad,

Yes, the remaining land is agricultural land.
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Re: Fence Erected outside Boundary on Plan

Postby Morgan Sweet » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:03 pm

Collaborate wrote:Even though 8 years has passed, if it is true that the siting of the fence was disputed from the moment it was erected, then your son is in the same position as the original owner. He will have 12 years from the date the fence was erected to challenge its position.

However the problem he faces is that, on the face of it, it can be argued that the 8 year delay is evidence of acquiescence by the previous owner with the position of the fence.

This is something that he could do with getting some specialist legal advice on. It would be very expensive to take the legal route. this is a link to a study by the MOJ into boundary disputes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -study.pdf


Thanks for the information Collaborate, his problem is the damn trees they are leylandii and he wishes to let the field for horse grazing but owners of thoroughbreds are unhappy as Leylandii trees are thought to be toxic to horses.
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Re: Fence Erected outside Boundary on Plan

Postby Collaborate » Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:28 am

Notch can be done about the trees. If he succeeds in regaining the land he'll have to remove them himself.

One wonders why the previous owner never asserted his rights? It's often subsequent owners who have to pick up the pieces.
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Re: Fence Erected outside Boundary on Plan

Postby arborlad » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:30 am

Morgan Sweet wrote:....the previous deceased owner had sold a section of to a neighbouring house owner to extend their garden.



Has a change of use been applied for?



The plans clearly show the section involved being from point A running to point B.



How good are these two points, the corner of a house would be better than the edge of a hedge.

It's always best that the two landowners are present when something of this nature is happening - not always possible.
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Re: Fence Erected outside Boundary on Plan

Postby Morgan Sweet » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:08 am

To answer the questions above:-

A change of use from agricultural to domestic garden has not been applied for according to a search of local planning files.

The owner who originally sold the section of land was an elderly and sick man, who subsequently died.

I just do not fully understand why, when the land registry map clearly shows the line that terminating at a point B which is at a corner of the neighbour's original garden and the copies of the land agents and solicitors who arranged the sale showing the same on their maps is not where the fence was subsequently erected. To my uneducated opinion the land demarcation shown on the land registry plan is where the point of ownership is established. I have often erected fences inside boundaries (rabbit fences, stock fences) but that does not mean that the neighbouring field can claim ownership up to the newly erected fence situated yards in from the land registry boundary.

I also do not understand the adverse possession law, surely if the neighbour wants to claim this after twelve years of its use he would have to notify my son of his intentions and it could only happen if my son agreed? Any clarification of my views would be appreciated. Fundamentally my son bought the land showing the land registry boundary and does not want to lose control of the land especially if the trees create a problem for him.
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Re: Fence Erected outside Boundary on Plan

Postby MacadamB53 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:30 am

arborlad wrote:
Morgan Sweet wrote: Unfortunately in doing so the fence at Point B was moved approx. 10 yards further into the field than the plans show. The distance between point A and B being around 150 yards,




A bit over 1/2 acre, not an insignificant amount, is the remainder agricultural ?
Hi arborlad,

if I've understood correctly the fence runs to Point A as intended, so the OP is describing a right-angle triangle measuring 10 yards along one edge and 150 yards along another (making the third edge approx 149' 8") - which I calc to be somewhere around an eighth of an acre...

might be wrong, though, and still quite a significant amount of land.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Fence Erected outside Boundary on Plan

Postby Morgan Sweet » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:53 pm

Mac is quite correct in his interpretation of the area of land.

Reading around the link kindly provided and other information, I am now assuming that the neighbour can claim adverse possession after 10 years of use and as he has land adjoining the section of land in question little can be done if both parties have previously accepted the boundary as being the fence. If I am correct in my assumption perhaps it would be best if my son asks a solicitor to write to his neighbour before the 10 years have passed pointing out that the fence has been erected in the wrong position according to the land registry plans so the neighbour is recorded as being made aware of the boundary. Would this action help in preventing him losing the land due to adverse possession?
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Re: Fence Erected outside Boundary on Plan

Postby MacadamB53 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:06 pm

Hi Morgan Sweet,

Would this action help in preventing him losing the land due to adverse possession?

not if the squatter retains possession and does not acknowledge he isn't the owner.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Fence Erected outside Boundary on Plan

Postby Morgan Sweet » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:53 am

I note that conveyancer had written on an other post (Boundary and Fence) that "For the record, if you erect a fence on your neighbour's land it becomes his fence.", if this is the case would not the fence and trees become my son's property since they have been placed on his side of the land registry boundary line?
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Re: Fence Erected outside Boundary on Plan

Postby MacadamB53 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:36 pm

Hi Morgan Sweet,

he may well own them, but possession and ownership are two separate things and if you possess property for long enough the law has it that you become owner too.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Fence Erected outside Boundary on Plan

Postby Morgan Sweet » Sun May 01, 2016 8:51 am

Thanks for the clarification Mac.

Having visited the land I noticed that a Power Pole is situated my son's side of the fence but the stay is situated the neighbours side of the fence, however my son received payment for both the pole and the stay as according to the utilities map both are clearly shown on his land.
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Re: Fence Erected outside Boundary on Plan

Postby Roblewis » Sun May 01, 2016 2:05 pm

You could potentially send a solicitors letter requiring the neighbour to retrieve his fence on your sons land and return it to the location shown on the LR plans. This will immediately stop any AP clock unless you fail to follow through and take possession of the land.
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