boundary question

boundary question

Postby baskingbee » Thu May 25, 2017 6:20 am

Hi there

I am in discussion with my neighbour over where the boundary appears to be on the title deeds and where the fence actually sits.

The title deeds show a line down the middle of the two plots but the fence actually sits about 3ft to my advantage. Its been there for more than 20 years.

I believe the boundary is where the fence sits. This is not my neighbour's view and they would like to move the fence.

I am not sure how to take this forward to resolve the issue.

Thank you for any advice.
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Re: boundary question

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu May 25, 2017 7:28 am

Hi baskingbee,

The title deeds show a line down the middle of the two plots

please elaborate on what you mean by "title deeds" - what documents? - and how they show "a line down the middle".

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: boundary question

Postby Collaborate » Thu May 25, 2017 7:37 am

There are two possibilities:

1. The LR plan boundaries are very general - so you cannot use them to determine where exactly the boundary lies. therefore the fence might be in the correct place. Having said that, 3 feet is quite a discrepancy.

2. as it's been more than 12 years, you can claim adverse possession of the extra 3 feet. There are 2 ways you can do this, and which one applies depends on whether you have the 12 years qualifying period on 13 October 2003 or not. If you did have 12 years on that date it is simpler - you apply to the Land Registry. If you didn't, when you apply to the LR they give notice to your neighbour, and they have 2 years in which to regain possession of the land from you (through the courts).

Here are the practice guides from the LR:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... tered-land

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... tered-land
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Re: boundary question

Postby baskingbee » Thu May 25, 2017 8:31 am

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi baskingbee,

The title deeds show a line down the middle of the two plots

please elaborate on what you mean by "title deeds" - what documents? - and how they show "a line down the middle".

Kind regards, Mac



Thank you Mac, the document I mean is the title plan attached to the title deeds. Apologies, if I haven't described it in the right way. It shows the two houses with a boundary line running down between the two properties, creating two equal gardens. Which isn't reflected in reality.
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Re: boundary question

Postby baskingbee » Thu May 25, 2017 8:40 am

Collaborate wrote:There are two possibilities:

1. The LR plan boundaries are very general - so you cannot use them to determine where exactly the boundary lies. therefore the fence might be in the correct place. Having said that, 3 feet is quite a discrepancy.

2. as it's been more than 12 years, you can claim adverse possession of the extra 3 feet. There are 2 ways you can do this, and which one applies depends on whether you have the 12 years qualifying period on 13 October 2003 or not. If you did have 12 years on that date it is simpler - you apply to the Land Registry. If you didn't, when you apply to the LR they give notice to your neighbour, and they have 2 years in which to regain possession of the land from you (through the courts).

Here are the practice guides from the LR:



Thank you collaborate. Having the 12 years before 2003 would mean that the fence would have needed to be up before 1991. I am not sure that it was. If I was to apply for adverse possession would this impact what I feel is my legitimate right to the land? Thank you.
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Re: boundary question

Postby Collaborate » Thu May 25, 2017 9:03 am

baskingbee wrote:Thank you collaborate. Having the 12 years before 2003 would mean that the fence would have needed to be up before 1991. I am not sure that it was. If I was to apply for adverse possession would this impact what I feel is my legitimate right to the land? Thank you.


The process would be different. It is far harder to get. Have a look at this article; https://www.lyonsdavidson.co.uk/adverse ... eighbours/
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Re: boundary question

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu May 25, 2017 10:35 am

baskingbee wrote:
MacadamB53 wrote:Hi baskingbee,

The title deeds show a line down the middle of the two plots

please elaborate on what you mean by "title deeds" - what documents? - and how they show "a line down the middle".

Kind regards, Mac



Thank you Mac, the document I mean is the title plan attached to the title deeds. Apologies, if I haven't described it in the right way. It shows the two houses with a boundary line running down between the two properties, creating two equal gardens. Which isn't reflected in reality.
the title plan - I assume this is an OS map...

...in which case you and your neighbour need to appreciate what an OS map does and does not show.

it is a representation of what was surveyed - walls, fences, buildings, roads, etc. and where they were surveyed.

however, they are inherently inaccurate to a certain degree - a degree deemed acceptable given why the map was produced (to show rough, rather than exact locations).

this degree of inaccuracy means that whilst most lines plotted will be pretty much spot on with regards to their placement, any given line might be as much as 1.2m (4ft) away from its true location in relation to the other lines plotted.

in other words, the fence marks the boundary and it is the map you're referencing which is awry.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: boundary question

Postby arborlad » Thu May 25, 2017 10:38 am

baskingbee wrote:Hi there

I am in discussion with my neighbour over where the boundary appears to be on the title deeds and where the fence actually sits.

The title deeds show a line down the middle of the two plots but the fence actually sits about 3ft to my advantage. Its been there for more than 20 years.

I believe the boundary is where the fence sits. This is not my neighbour's view and they would like to move the fence.

I am not sure how to take this forward to resolve the issue.

Thank you for any advice.




What is the timeline and history of both your purchases?...............who owns/claims to own the fence?
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Re: boundary question

Postby baskingbee » Thu May 25, 2017 10:52 am

arborlad wrote:What is the timeline and history of both your purchases?...............who owns/claims to own the fence?



I have been in the house a couple of years, and the neighbour 10 years. The fence has a T on it facing my property which I think makes it mine.
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Re: boundary question

Postby baskingbee » Thu May 25, 2017 7:51 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:
in other words, the fence marks the boundary and it is the map you're referencing which is awry.

Kind regards, Mac


Thank you Mac, my neighbours' conveyancer doesn't accept any of this and just insists I am wrong. He is not giving my neighbour any of other advice other than I am wrong and we must move the fence to take back the garden.
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Re: boundary question

Postby ParallelLines » Sun May 28, 2017 1:00 pm

This is purely my personal view but if it was me I would pay for a visit from a surveyor who deals in boundaries. By that I mean a reputable local one, not these ambulance chasing types you see advertised. It might be a lot better to spend a bit of money now and get a good opinion you can rely on as opposed to getting drawn in to a legal dispute that could see costs escalate.

The point is you do need to ensure your evidence is good enough before making any sort of declaration. It could even come down to witnesses etc etc.

I would write back saying you need a bit of time to look into it and will reply in due course.
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Re: boundary question

Postby SarahSue » Sun May 28, 2017 5:38 pm

Hi Parallel Lines
We had a not dissimilar conundrum. The deeds showed the boundary to be - as is usually the case - at the middle point between the two terraced houses. But a long long established garden - and following the line of the garden - did not tie in with that. We had a surveyor look at it and he concluded that since every single house had the same slightly out of sync boundary line and every house had the same plot of land, that the garden or front driveway of each house had become the boundary as was set out on the ground and not as displayed in the deeds. The way it was explained to me was the boundary is set out in the deeds but at some point when the properties are being built, the gardens or front driveways are laid out not in accordance with the original plans and thus the boundary changes over time. Possibly this is become of drain placement.
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Re: boundary question

Postby ParallelLines » Sun May 28, 2017 7:49 pm

Yes this is exactly it - it's always different on the ground!

A lot of the speculative building in the past was far more piecemeal than today. In the 20's and 30's a single road might have a lot of different developers in so they won't always have been set out in a uniform fashion. The original boundary post on my semi is not on the centreline either. But what with slopes and angles I'm sure they had good reason for doing what they did.
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Re: boundary question

Postby arborlad » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:50 am

baskingbee wrote:
baskingbee wrote:My neighbour and I continue to be in dispute resulting in the neighbour entering the disputed area and moving plants etc out of it. Also, the neighbour has to enter undisputed areas to access some of the disputed area to move things. Surely, this cannot be right. I really don't know how to handle this. I can keep moving things back but it seems ridiculous..... but I feel very unnerved about her entering all areas of my garden.


This is just happening day after day. I put everything back, neighbour moves everything. I am not sure how to handle this. Thanks for any input.




One of the terms used for Adverse Possession is: 'to exclude all others', this obviously hasn't happened. How and why is the neighbour able to enter any part of your land - undisputed or otherwise?
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Re: boundary question

Postby ukmicky » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:21 pm

Forget adverse possession your title plan only shows a General boundary and cannot be used to determine where the legal boundary is. The line on the title plan would mean nothing even if the difference was 50 feet.

If your neighbour had a real surveyor he would not be using the title plan as to evidence as to where the fence should sit and I would be telling him to get a proper surveyor who understands the law and how it works,



https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/9/section/60
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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