Overlapping Title

Overlapping Title

Postby friedeggs » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:51 pm

My first post, so I can't add images.
This may be quite a trivial issue, and I only want a passing opinion.
My Land Registry Title plan shows my property, which was bought from the district council by the then-tenants in 1991. It also shows, tinted in yellow, some additional land which was bought separately from the district council by the previous owners to me, in 2005. This land contains restrictions only for garden use.
Whilst I was researching the possibility of purchasing some extra land from the council, I downloaded some of the neighbouring titles, and came across one for a narrow strip of land (maybe 2m wide) that overlaps with my additional land, but runs some way beyond it. It looks as though the district council took over this land in the 70s.

The issue seems to be that the additional land purchased in 2005 fell within two adjacent titles, both owned the council. My title plan correctly shows the additional land as belonging entirely to me, but a strip of it has not been removed from the councils title.

Do I need to worry about this? Is it possible, or even necessary to rectify this? Would the fault be more likely to be LR, the council, or the conveyancing solicitor for the purchasers?
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Re: Overlapping Title

Postby Collaborate » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:14 am

the other title should have been amended in the property register. Usually there is a statement to say, eg, by a transfer dated [date] the property coloured [x] was removed from the title to this property. Perhaps you could write to the LR?
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Re: Overlapping Title

Postby friedeggs » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:54 pm

Thanks, that is what I assumed. I have sent them an inquiry a week ago via their web site, including the relevant title references, but despite receiving an acknowledgement I have had no reply yet.
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Re: Overlapping Title

Postby friedeggs » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:36 pm

I've made a composite to show the overlap if it clarifies the situation. The pink and yellow land is my property. The long red edged strip is the second title, the council owned land.

Overlap.PNG
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Re: Overlapping Title

Postby pilman » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:36 pm

Expecting a response from Land Registry within a week suggests that you are an optimist.

First thing to do when dealing with Land Registry is to become a pragmatist.

Learn to be patient and see how long it takes for a reply that will probably require research by someone tasked with writing back to you.

I had a letter dated 3rd March replied to on 9th July, just to give you an example of the time required for Land Registry's machinery to roll into action and churn out a written response.

You probably have nothing to worry about if the red line drawn around the yellow and pink land is from the title plan that recorded the land actually transferred by the council in 2005.
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Re: Overlapping Title

Postby friedeggs » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:05 am

I didn't really expect anything ne in a hurry, and it is not a pressing matter. LR acknowledged my enquiry, saying:
We usually reply to online enquiries within the next full working day, and are committed to responding to all online correspondence within five working days. If we believe that it may take longer we'll contact you to let you know.


I will assume that my title plan is correct. I have the original map and letter from the council detailing the land transfer at the time, which I can fall back on if necessary.
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Re: Overlapping Title

Postby friedeggs » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:32 pm

Well, the Land Registry have reviewed the records and are going to update the old title to remove the overlapping land, as long as the council are in agreement.
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Re: Overlapping Title

Postby pilman » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:43 pm

Once Land Registry confirm that the back parcel of land coloured pink and yellow is all yours, that's when you can start to design the new house to be built on the pink land, with the garden area using the yellow land.

Or is that just the musing of a retired planning consultant. :D

P.S. I am assuming that the track is suitable for a vehicle to access that part of the pink land I think would be a building plot.
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Re: Overlapping Title

Postby friedeggs » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:30 pm

Yes, that had occurred to me when buying the house, and there would certainly be some money in it. But no, what we would like to do is buy the path and combine the two gardens into one piece of land. It's a bit mad that the path was left there when the land was added on, but it was probably cheaper.
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Re: Overlapping Title

Postby pilman » Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:48 pm

There is a strong probability that the path is there as a right of way to the back gardens of the houses.

That would have been why such a path was constructed behind a terrace of houses when coal deliveries were the most common form of fuel for heating houses.

Even if you were able to buy the path between the two parcels of land it would still mean that the right of way would exist, if my assumption as to why there is a path turns out to be correct.
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Re: Overlapping Title

Postby friedeggs » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:52 am

Well, we seem to have slipped from the boundary title issue to the real reason I have been lurking in these forums the past few months!
These are 8 semi-detached council houses, built circa 1980. Originally they all had similar length gardens and there was a triangle of extra land behind them all, owned by the council. The pathways are the access to that land. When some of the houses began to be bought, the council split up the extra land and added it onto the back of the gardens. However they left the access way in place, and it did not become part of our property. The original deed (conveyance) grants our property a right of way over the path adjoining us, but the other houses are either still council owned, or do not have any similar right.
I am aware things could be more complex than they appear, but if the council and our neighbours are in agreement, there seems to be no reason why we should not attempt to acquire our part of the passage.
It was whilst i was establishing the ownership of the different pieces of land that I came across the overlap, and decided it was better to sort it out now than run into issues in the future.
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Re: Overlapping Title

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:37 am

Hi friedeggs,

the other houses... ...do not have any similar right

they may have a similar right that isn't documented (because it doesn't need to be).

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Overlapping Title

Postby jdfi » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:24 am

Does the path exist on the ground, or are fences now erected such that all gardens are continuous.

Does the path go anywhere?
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Re: Overlapping Title

Postby friedeggs » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:10 pm

jdfi wrote:Does the path exist on the ground, or are fences now erected such that all gardens are continuous.

Does the path go anywhere?


Please see the map above. The path is not a designated right of way, not does it have any Street furniture or signs to indicate it might be. The council are happy for the adjoining properties to gate it at either end.
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Re: Overlapping Title

Postby friedeggs » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:00 pm

To finish the story:

The Land Registry wrote me a letter today, apologising for their error, and updating the council's title to remove the overlap with my land. So all sorted, and very polite they were throughout.

Thanks again for the comments and advice.
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