Outbuilding window invading privacy

Outbuilding window invading privacy

Postby Joannella » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:59 pm

Hello,
Our neighbours are having an extension put in and their garden terraced which is fine with us but as part of their work they are also having a large outbuilding built. This comes under permitted development and is under 2.5 meters even though it's huge. However, they are having a large window put in the front of it which, due to the slope of our garden, has a clear view into our bedroom. It also overlooks the garden but we can fix that with a 2 meter fence but this will not protect our privacy from our bedroom. I've looked at the plans online and there is no mention of a window in the plans or on the illustrations. We don't care about the size of the building which is good as there'd be nothing we could do about it but the window is a significant issue. We did speak to the planning dept. but was put through to someone just answers the phones but she was under the impression that while the building may fall under permitted development, there were separate rules for windows and they may be in breach and we should put in a complaint. Does anyone know if the neighbours can do this? Or has any experience of a similar situation? We do want a good relationship with our neighbours and have tried to voice our concerns but they aren't listening and there solution was to put some bamboo in but the problem is unless they grow it 25 foot high it's not going to block the view due to the angle! So, we're just looking for advice before we go official.
Please help!
Joannella
 

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Re: Outbuilding window invading privacy

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:26 pm

Hi Joanella,

I've looked at the plans online

plans available online? I assume as part of a planning application - but this comes under PD? please explain...

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Outbuilding window invading privacy

Postby Joannella » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:40 pm

Yes there are plans online but they are very basic and not as detailed as the plans for their extension. The planning form they have filled out is this one: Application for a Lawful Development Certificate for a Proposed use or development. Town and Country Planning Act 1990: Section 192, as amended
by section 10 of the Planning and Compensation act 1991.
Town and Country Planning (Development Management Procedure) (England) Order 2015

and they have been issued with a certificate of lawfulness

Based upon the information supplied, the proposed garden studio building complies with the terms of Schedule 2, Part 1, Class E of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (as amended).
2. List of approved plans and drawings
The plans that were formally considered as part of the application are as follows:
Site location plan, received 10 April 2017
Location and proposed block plan, received 10 April 2017 Site photos, received 10 April 2017

The accompanying report states the following

RESPONSE TO PUBLICITY AND CONSULTATION
Given this is an application for a lawful development certificate, where all that can be considered is whether development complies with the General Permitted Development Order, no consultation has been undertaken.

Now the site location plan and proposed block plan are super basic and do not indicate doors or windows on them at all. There's also been no planning issued for the terracing but we have no real issue with that as our garden was terraced by the previous owner.

KEY ISSUES: DOES THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT COMPLY WITH CRITERIA FOR PERMITTED DEVELOPMENT?
The applicant has submitted an application under section 192 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 to the local planning authority in order ascertain whether operations composing of the erection of a garden studio are lawful. The key test is to therefore consider if the proposed development falls within the criteria set out within of Part 1 to Schedule 2 of the GPDO which considers development within a curtilage of a dwellinghouse.

Does this make sense to you?

We have been very helpful to put neighbours and allowed the scaffolding to go up on our side and moved cars etc to help them re the work but we had no idea that they were going to be building a viewing gallery into our bedroom. It says it must conform to the plans but there's no window on the plans? I'm finding it all rather confusing and want to know a bit more about where we stand before we go further. The woman on the phone at the council seemed to think we had a worthwhile complaint given the issue re the window and that is all we are concerned with. The building is 6.5 meters across and the window is approx 4 metres along- this is a guesstimate re window size but the actual size of the building is specified on the plans.
Joannella
 

Re: Outbuilding window invading privacy

Postby Joannella » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:43 pm

If it helps the extension is down as a 'full planning application' and the outbuilding is a 'Type of application:Certificate of Lawfulness - proposed'
Joannella
 

Re: Outbuilding window invading privacy

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:40 pm

Hi Joanella,

they did not need to apply for the "lawful development certificate" for their proposed outbuilding - they did so for their own peace of mind (or that of future buyers) and nothing else.

unfortunately, for you, they are legally entitled to build the proposed outbuilding with or without windows - and they have obtained a "lawful development certificate" as proof for a bit of belt & braces.

suppose they didn't go ahead with their plan - would they not be able to just stand in their garden and look into your bedroom anyway?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Outbuilding window invading privacy

Postby jonahinoz » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:50 pm

Hi Joannella,

Where I lived in South Wales, there were rules preventing "opposing windows of habitable rooms within 20 metres of each other". I think a lesser distance was allowed if the windows were off-set from each other.

I don't know if this was a local rule, a planning rule, or a building control rule, but the LA gave me a helpful booklet.

John W
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Re: Outbuilding window invading privacy

Postby Joannella » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:58 pm

Hi Mac,
Yes they could stand in their garden and look in but most people are unlikely to do this. However when there's a building it's more intrusive as they could be out there all the time- day or night and they are likely to be there longer. This makes it much more uncomfortable and that is what compromises our privacy. Also, it means we can see into what they're doing every time we open our window. It's so raised and so large (4 metre-isa) that even if it's legal it's completely inconsiderate and has damaged neighbourly relations. Just because you're 'allowed' by law to do it doesn't make it right. Also they're very keen on having a sunny garden but because of this development we will be putting in a 2 meter fence when they're done to block it from looking into our garden and into our living room- the sloped garden means we get a double whammy there! But the bedroom is by far the most intrusive aspect and there;'s nothing we can do our side to protect that if the law is not on our side.
Jo
Joannella
 

Re: Outbuilding window invading privacy

Postby Joannella » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:58 pm

Hi John,

Thank you for that, I will look into and try and work out if the space hits the 20 meters rule - or under it as it is at an angle.

Best wishes
Jo
Joannella
 

Re: Outbuilding window invading privacy

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:23 pm

Joannella wrote:Hi Mac,
Yes they could stand in their garden and look in but most people are unlikely to do this. However when there's a building it's more intrusive as they could be out there all the time- day or night and they are likely to be there longer. This makes it much more uncomfortable and that is what compromises our privacy. Also, it means we can see into what they're doing every time we open our window. It's so raised and so large (4 metre-isa) that even if it's legal it's completely inconsiderate and has damaged neighbourly relations. Just because you're 'allowed' by law to do it doesn't make it right. Also they're very keen on having a sunny garden but because of this development we will be putting in a 2 meter fence when they're done to block it from looking into our garden and into our living room- the sloped garden means we get a double whammy there! But the bedroom is by far the most intrusive aspect and there;'s nothing we can do our side to protect that if the law is not on our side.
Jo
Hi Jo,

so if they had some desire to watch you they'd already be doing so.

you are imagining an unlikely scenario and then telling yourself it is likely.
it just isn't.
what is much more likely is that they've put a window in to provide natural light into the outbuilding so folk don't need to switch a light on if they go in there during the day and have absolutely no desire whatsoever to spend any time at all watching you.

kind regards, Mac
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Re: Outbuilding window invading privacy

Postby ukmicky » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:29 am

Net curtains
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: Outbuilding window invading privacy

Postby Joannella » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:54 am

MacadamB53 wrote:
Joannella wrote:Hi Mac,
Yes they could stand in their garden and look in but most people are unlikely to do this. However when there's a building it's more intrusive as they could be out there all the time- day or night and they are likely to be there longer. This makes it much more uncomfortable and that is what compromises our privacy. Also, it means we can see into what they're doing every time we open our window. It's so raised and so large (4 metre-isa) that even if it's legal it's completely inconsiderate and has damaged neighbourly relations. Just because you're 'allowed' by law to do it doesn't make it right. Also they're very keen on having a sunny garden but because of this development we will be putting in a 2 meter fence when they're done to block it from looking into our garden and into our living room- the sloped garden means we get a double whammy there! But the bedroom is by far the most intrusive aspect and there;'s nothing we can do our side to protect that if the law is not on our side.
Jo
Hi Jo,

so if they had some desire to watch you they'd already be doing so.

you are imagining an unlikely scenario and then telling yourself it is likely.
it just isn't.
what is much more likely is that they've put a window in to provide natural light into the outbuilding so folk don't need to switch a light on if they go in there during the day and have absolutely no desire whatsoever to spend any time at all watching you.

kind regards, Mac


I came here to ask for some practical advice there is no need to be so combative and rude. Please stop replying to this thread
Joannella
 

Re: Outbuilding window invading privacy

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:09 am

Hi Joanella,

sorry if you think I'm being combative and rude - that wasn't intentional.

I'm trying to be helpful.

the plain truth is there is nothing much you can do about what someone else does on there own land if it's legal and lawful.

your only hope is persuasion.

all the best, Mac
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Re: Outbuilding window invading privacy

Postby jonahinoz » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:21 am

Hi Joanella

I Googled DISTANCE BETWEEN OPPOSING WINDOWS, got lots of hits ... here is just one.

http://www.wrexham.gov.uk/english/plann ... /lpg21.htm

I suggest you do the same Google search, but add the name of your town.

While your neighbours do not want to peer into your window, the Planners have obviously decided there is a risk, else they would not have imposed these rules. I have met the opposite ... the lady next door used to sunbathe in a deck chair. Four foot high garden wall. I don't know how much she was exposing, as I always managed to avert my eyes before they were fully focused ... but it was a lot. I had to walk around my garden, eyes focused on the ground.

Good luck

John W
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Re: Outbuilding window invading privacy

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:36 am

Hi John W,

that guidance relates to building new dwellings - which requires a full planning application - its what the LPA consider good/bad.

the neighbour of the OP is building an outbuilding under PD so the guidance is not relevant.

kind regards, Mac
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Re: Outbuilding window invading privacy

Postby span » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:47 pm

Joannella wrote:
MacadamB53 wrote:
Joannella wrote:Hi Mac,
Yes they could stand in their garden and look in but most people are unlikely to do this. However when there's a building it's more intrusive as they could be out there all the time- day or night and they are likely to be there longer. This makes it much more uncomfortable and that is what compromises our privacy. Also, it means we can see into what they're doing every time we open our window. It's so raised and so large (4 metre-isa) that even if it's legal it's completely inconsiderate and has damaged neighbourly relations. Just because you're 'allowed' by law to do it doesn't make it right. Also they're very keen on having a sunny garden but because of this development we will be putting in a 2 meter fence when they're done to block it from looking into our garden and into our living room- the sloped garden means we get a double whammy there! But the bedroom is by far the most intrusive aspect and there;'s nothing we can do our side to protect that if the law is not on our side.
Jo
Hi Jo,

so if they had some desire to watch you they'd already be doing so.

you are imagining an unlikely scenario and then telling yourself it is likely.
it just isn't.
what is much more likely is that they've put a window in to provide natural light into the outbuilding so folk don't need to switch a light on if they go in there during the day and have absolutely no desire whatsoever to spend any time at all watching you.

kind regards, Mac


I came here to ask for some practical advice there is no need to be so combative and rude. Please stop replying to this thread


Yeah, isn't he combative and rude? I don't blame you in the least for wanting nothing else and nothing more from Mac, but I don't think you have that option. It doesn't quite work like that. You don't get to chose who can and who can't answer your posts.

Pity, and shame too, but them's the rules. It's no good hoping he'll take the hint either and voluntarily stop posting on your nice thread. He never does. Post post post, that's Mac with his good advice. Determined to share it and help people. Even the ungrateful ones.
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