Right of way

Right of way

Postby lisa anne » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:52 am

I live in a terrace & have a rear right of way for access across my neighbours garden. I am building a small rear extension & this will go across the gate. My neighbour has refused to move the gate as claims it's inconvenient. He has declined to give me back my party wall agreement to allow for the build unless I sign away my right of way. I can not afford to take this to surveyors or solicitors as the cost is going to be too much. He has wanted this right of way gone for many years even before I lived there. I see no choice but to have it removed from my deed (I never get to use it anyway as its all locked up).
I feel however that this has a financial benefit to my neighbour & should therefore 'buy' my right of way. He benefits I do not.
What would be a fair price? how would I calculate this? Am I correct?
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Re: Right of way

Postby MacadamB53 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:27 am

lisa anne wrote:I live in a terrace & have a rear right of way for access across my neighbours garden. I am building a small rear extension & this will go across the gate. My neighbour has refused to move the gate as claims it's inconvenient. He has declined to give me back my party wall agreement to allow for the build unless I sign away my right of way. I can not afford to take this to surveyors or solicitors as the cost is going to be too much. He has wanted this right of way gone for many years even before I lived there. I see no choice but to have it removed from my deed (I never get to use it anyway as its all locked up).
I feel however that this has a financial benefit to my neighbour & should therefore 'buy' my right of way. He benefits I do not.
What would be a fair price? how would I calculate this? Am I correct?
the value of both properties will change - his for the better, yours for the worse.

you will find selling a mid-terrace with no access to the rear garden much harder to sell...

how come the gate is locked?
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Re: Right of way

Postby SwitchRich » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:37 am

Hi Lisa Anne,
You'll probably get a mix of views on here for the worth of the ROW. Some will claim it has a big value to your property, some will claim it is a relic of the past use of coal sheds to heat homes and therefore worth very little. (seeing at most modern terraced properties do not have ROW's and hold their value just fine)
It is however most definitely worth something to your neighbour so I would not give it up for nothing. What is his house worth?
It seems like he is trying to force your hand because you are looking to extend. And if you wish to extend over your current ROW, then by default you will give it up because BOTH parties would have to agree if for it to be moved to a different location.
It very much depends on how you want to play it with you neighbour? Have relations soured now that you have spoken? Or could things be rescued?
You mention the ROW is locked up? If you wanted to play hardball you could cancel your extension and then inform the neighbour to unlock the gate as you will be starting to use the ROW daily. But be prepared for nastiness! It would however force their hand to the negotiating table.
Do you have a mortgage? If you give it up then you will need to inform the bank you are making a change to the deed. (they would also need to agree to it)
Also I believe to extinguish a ROW you will need to do it via a solicitor and so you would need to factor their bills in all this (usually paid by your neighbour) And then on top of that think about what you would want as a fee to doing this. There is no formula to work out an exact fee. It all depends on what it is worth to your neighbour AND if they are will to pay anything for it to be removed from their property.
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Re: Right of way

Postby MacadamB53 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:43 am

Hi SwitchRich,

seeing at most modern terraced properties do not have ROW's and hold their value just fine

most of the modern terraces in my neck of the woods - built since the turn of the century - are laid out with a separate path along the back of the properties to provide each with rear access (ie a ROW - just like "old" terraces).

any chance you could share your source re that newer terraces don't have ROWs?

kind regards, Mac
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Re: Right of way

Postby SwitchRich » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:05 pm

Hey Mac,
Source is not a link I can share. It's one of my squash buddies who is a Chartered Surveyor and also an arbitrator and mediator of property disputes. I get most of my info on these things from him.
I'm originally from Southampton so imagine that he was talking about this area as that is where his business was situated.
I remember one of our conversations about ROW's when my wife and I bought a place in Hertfordshire. His opinion and experience/opinion of them they are as I stated, a relic of the past.
The parts of a property that he considered to hold true value are things like location to local amenities, location to transport links, rights to access local schools for childrens educations, having a dry space with running water, lecky gas etc.
Rear garden access would not factor in his valuations.

Rich
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Re: Right of way

Postby MacadamB53 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:57 pm

SwitchRich wrote:Hey Mac,
Source is not a link I can share. It's one of my squash buddies who is a Chartered Surveyor and also an arbitrator and mediator of property disputes. I get most of my info on these things from him.
I'm originally from Southampton so imagine that he was talking about this area as that is where his business was situated.
I remember one of our conversations about ROW's when my wife and I bought a place in Hertfordshire. His opinion and experience/opinion of them they are as I stated, a relic of the past.
The parts of a property that he considered to hold true value are things like location to local amenities, location to transport links, rights to access local schools for childrens educations, having a dry space with running water, lecky gas etc.
Rear garden access would not factor in his valuations.

Rich
don't suppose he fancies joining the forum? sounds ideal

grateful regards, Mac
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Re: Right of way

Postby SwitchRich » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:47 pm

I'll definitely tell him about this site! I've been helped and have learnt so much by you guys.
But he's full on with his own business so may not have the time.
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Re: Right of way

Postby lisa anne » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:47 pm

Thanks for feed back. did not know about mortage provider being informed so will get advice from them. As for it being locked its claimed its 'for security' At the moment all is good between us i dont want 'nastiness' so trying to be as fair but firm as possible.
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Re: Right of way

Postby span » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:59 pm

lisa anne wrote:Thanks for feed back. did not know about mortage provider being informed so will get advice from them. As for it being locked its claimed its 'for security' At the moment all is good between us i dont want 'nastiness' so trying to be as fair but firm as possible.


Laugh at you. You're trying to be fair, he's walking all over you.

Post up the details of your right of way. Perhaps it's not strictly defined along a specified route but general access across his land to yours? The devil is in the detail.

And living next door to you, it seems.
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Re: Right of way

Postby ukmicky » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:12 am

I live in a terrace & have a rear right of way for access across my neighbours garden. I am building a small rear extension & this will go across the gate. My neighbour has refused to move the gate as claims it's inconvenient.


He doesn't have to move the gate under any circumstances. You may have the right depending on a few things.

If your title plan shows the route onto his land ,you have no right to change the route without his permission . If the route is not shown on your title plan and is also not noted on your register of title , the easement will be implied and therefore the current route will also be implied so you again cant change the route without his permission . The only way you can change the route without his permission is if your deeds state you have a right of way across his land but do not mention or show the route.


He has declined to give me back my party wall agreement to allow for the build unless I sign away my right of way.
There is no way to stop the party wall process once started, unless you change your build plans so it is no longer needed in which case you need to send a dated notice cancelling the previous notice specifying why your works no longer require a party wall agreement . If you don't change your plans he can either hand it back and dissent to the build which will then require surveyors if you wish to continue or he can agree to the build and state he wishes to be represented by a surveyor. If he dissents you will need surveyors if you wish to continue.

Is this a single story extension or double ?

What were your reasons for sending a party wall notice. Not all single story builds need a party wall agreement if you have got good builders who understand how to do things.
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: Right of way

Postby SwitchRich » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:34 am

ukmicky wrote:
If your title plan shows the route onto his land


Also be aware the ROW could be detailed on his title plan! So may be worth going to the Land Registry website and buying a copy of his full deeds and plan for £6 total for both.
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Re: Right of way

Postby stufe35 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:16 am

lisa anne wrote:(I never get to use it anyway as its all locked up).


You should not have to ask him to be able to use the right of way. He cannot lock it up to exclude you or your visitors.

Do you have keys for these locks ?

If this were your primary access it is unlikely he could lock it at all. As it is the rear access not used by post men (for example), then it is probably reasonable to have it locked (qand indeed helps your own security) but you must have access 24/7.-

You might want to factor this into your negotiations.

-----------

Contrary to the comments above I totally disagree about the loss of the rear access effecting value of your property. I don't know what you have out the back, but I would not buy a house where I had to fetch all my house hold waste, garden waste etc. through the house. As a cyclist neither would I want to bring my bike through the house.

You can see that you may not use the right of way all that much , but for many people it would be a deal breaker..no rear access ..not interested in purchase.

I would advise reconfiguring your extention so you do not block the access to your right of way. As stated above though you MAY be able to move it depending on plans and wording of easement..dig these out and post them for people to assess this for you.

In MHO losing your rear access massively detracts from the desirability of your property and hence its value.

Do not let this man bully you. Find out what your rights are , understand them, and use them.
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Re: Right of way

Postby Roblewis » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:12 pm

Modifying plans could also eliminate the need for any party wall agreement. You will be free then to use the existing RoW route regularly and should do so
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Re: Right of way

Postby span » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:25 pm

Hah. Yeah. Modify your extension plans such that there's an exit/entry door to your new extension located precisely where the current ROW enters your property. Careful to have the door opening inwards though, since you don't have a right to swing open a door over his property.

No worry then about having to move your ROW. But you'll be using it multiple times daily to get to your new back door.

Could you take a picture of his face and post it up here when you tell him this?
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Re: Right of way

Postby SwitchRich » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:08 pm

stufe35 wrote:
Contrary to the comments above I totally disagree about the loss of the rear access effecting value of your property.


Indeed! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But in the eyes of a mortgage company or bank the value of the asset is not affected by rear garden access.
They don't care if you are a cyclist who likes to garden, so if it's something you don't use or value, and someone does who could pay you a decent slug of money then go for it.
Think more along the lines of what would be the value increase of your neighbor's house if the ROW was removed. 1%?, 2% or maybe more. That should bring you closer to a reasonable figure you could ask for if the neighbour is interested in doing a deal.
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