Claim Unregistered Land

Claim Unregistered Land

Postby DIYBath » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:16 pm

I have applied to the Land Registry for a SIM which has revealed that some land next to my property is unregistered.

The SIM reads as follows: "No registered estate, caution against first registration or application for first registration or application for a caution against first registration...".

The land is right next to my access so critical and something I want to protect.

What can I do to protect my property and claim this land and/or restrict others from doing so?
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Postby mr sheen » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:21 pm

Lots of land is unregistered but all land is owned by someone. If it isn't part of your title, you do not own it and someone else does.
The only way to take the land from the legal owner is to claim adverse possession because you have used it as if you own it for many years. From what you describe neither you nor anyone else is in the position to claim adverse possession of it. Perhaps you could give more information.
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Postby DIYBath » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:11 pm

I could claim adverse possession of it but it's difficult to identify the extent of the land even with a site plan.

All I want to do is protect my interests, it sounds a bit like I'm covered already.

Whats the best way to identify the land in question, is there a process I can follow or an expert I should call?
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Postby MacadamB53 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:46 pm

DIYBath wrote:I could claim adverse possession of it but it's difficult to identify the extent of the land even with a site plan.

All I want to do is protect my interests, it sounds a bit like I'm covered already.

Whats the best way to identify the land in question, is there a process I can follow or an expert I should call?
if the land is beyond the boundaries of your property AND you’re struggling to identify the boundaries of the land then I assume:

1. you haven’t been dealing with the land as if you own it because if you had you’d know it’s boundaries
2. the land can be accessed by others, including the rightful owner, without force or without needing your say so

have I assumed correctly?

kind regards, Mac
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Postby DIYBath » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:13 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:1. you haven’t been dealing with the land as if you own it because if you had you’d know it’s boundaries
2. the land can be accessed by others, including the rightful owner, without force or without needing your say so


Yes

Although as I say I could easily build on part of it, it's a very small area and sits between my property and the highway. The only other land that abuts it is on a separate estate.
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Postby mr sheen » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:34 pm

The land may be part of the 'highway' from what you describe. This is a legal determination of the 'highway' as oppose to the roadway and often includes grass verges etc. If it is part of the highway any attempt to enclose it and exclude others will probably result in the local authority taking action against you which they are pretty much guaranteed to win and force you to pay all costs.

For adverse possession to even have a slight chance you would have to have been using the land as if you owned it for years. If you want to start that process you will need to fence it off to exclude all others and use it as if you own it for 12 years for starters.
It would be useful to check if the land is part of the highway before doing anything.

You suggest building on it.....this would be a big risk since you would effectively create a gift of the building to the land owner.
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Postby MacadamB53 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:23 pm

mr sheen wrote:The land may be part of the 'highway' from what you describe. This is a legal determination of the 'highway' as oppose to the roadway and often includes grass verges etc. If it is part of the highway any attempt to enclose it and exclude others will probably result in the local authority taking action against you which they are pretty much guaranteed to win and force you to pay all costs.

For adverse possession to even have a slight chance you would have to have been using the land as if you owned it for years. If you want to start that process you will need to fence it off to exclude all others and use it as if you own it for 12 years for starters.
It would be useful to check if the land is part of the highway before doing anything.

You suggest building on it.....this would be a big risk since you would effectively create a gift of the building to the land owner.
to add to this excellent post, if the land is a verge or similar and lies between what you would say is the front of your property and the public road then the law presumes the land is part of your property anyway.

this is because there is a legal presumption that a transfer of land which has frontage to a road (either to the front, rear or side) includes all the coexistensive land to the mid-point of the road - i.e. the law presumes you own to the middle of the road.

“legal presumption” means the law considers it as a fact unless presented with contrary evidence.

this, of course, does not necessarily mean you can enclose it because, as ‘mr sheen’ advises, you cannot enclose part of a highway and most verges beside public roads are considered part of a highway.

what it does mean, though, is that there’s no point trying to claim adverse possession because you cannot adversely possession what you already own.

may advice would be to make discreet enquiries to establish whether the land is part of the highway and then, if not, enclose it into your garden - in the event someone then comes forward with evidence that rebuts the legal presumption you humbly apologise and reinstate the status quo.

kind regards, Mac
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Postby DIYBath » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:09 pm

Thanks for the great advice.

I have got a map that shows that which has been adopted by Highways it shows a space between my land and the adopted Highways land.

From what Mac says it sounds like I'm covered as the land is between my drive entrance and the road.

One thing I do notice is that it's difficult to identify the exact location of the land, have tried measuring. Measurements from my property to my boundary match but those from the curb to the property do not. Not sure whats up with that?

Is there a process that a layman could follow to settle on the location of the land?
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:51 pm

Hi DIYBath,

where did you source that map? and does it reference the width of the highway? and does it explicitly reference the land is not included (rather than it being outside some lines that have been added to an OS map)?

kind regards, Mac
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Postby mr sheen » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:27 pm

There are a few reasons for that space. It could still be highway or it could be amenity land, either way you can't claim it and get to own it.

Tape measures and maps are not a good match.

If the land is outside your boundary features, it was not meant to be transferred to you.
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:29 pm

mr sheen wrote:There are a few reasons for that space. It could still be highway or it could be amenity land, either way you can't claim it and get to own it.

Tape measures and maps are not a good match.

If the land is outside your boundary features, it was not meant to be transferred to you.
Hi mr sheen,

IMHO although you consistently provide sound advice, here you fall short.

the use of the land, the rights others have over it, or it being outside the curtilage of the OP’s dwellling does not mean the land isn’t or can never be part of the OP’s property - in fact the law presumes it already is.

as I mentioned above, though, if the land is considered part of a highway then the OP must leave things as they are - just like the owner of land over which a private RoW runs cannot enclose it or build on it because to do so would compromise the RoW.

kind regards, Mac
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:36 pm

Hi DIYBath,

an oversight on my part - if the “use” of the land is considered something other than garden land by your LPA then you will need planning permission for the “change of use” if you want to enclose it (after establishing its not part of a highway).

there are three ways of gaining pp - either apply for it beforehand and it gets approved, retrospectively apply for it if the LPA get wind and it gets approved, or never apply and hope the LPA don’t take enforcement action within 10 years and thereby timebarring them and effectively granting pp.

kind regards, Mac
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Postby arborlad » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:52 pm

DIYBath wrote:I have applied to the Land Registry for a SIM which has revealed that some land next to my property is unregistered.

The SIM reads as follows: "No registered estate, caution against first registration or application for first registration or application for a caution against first registration...".

The land is right next to my access so critical and something I want to protect.

What can I do to protect my property and claim this land and/or restrict others from doing so?




What drew your attention to this piece of land, what made it stand out from the rest?
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Postby arborlad » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:55 pm

arborlad wrote:
DIYBath wrote:I have applied to the Land Registry for a SIM which has revealed that some land next to my property is unregistered.

The SIM reads as follows: "No registered estate, caution against first registration or application for first registration or application for a caution against first registration...".

The land is right next to my access so critical and something I want to protect.

What can I do to protect my property and claim this land and/or restrict others from doing so?




What drew your attention to this piece of land, what made it stand out from the rest?




Leaving questions unanswered and starting multiple threads is not the best way to resolve any issues you might have:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21021

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21019
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Re: Claim Unregistered Land

Postby DIYBath » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:49 pm

Sorry for the delay....

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi DIYBath,

where did you source that map? and does it reference the width of the highway? and does it explicitly reference the land is not included (rather than it being outside some lines that have been added to an OS map)?

kind regards, Mac


I got the Map from "Buy A Plan" recommended by the Planning Portal.

Tape measures and maps are not a good match.


What would you suggest RE identifying the position and extent of the land?

What drew your attention to this piece of land, what made it stand out from the rest?


Neighbour complained after the planning went through, he has been in contact with Planning but I haven't heard anything back from them.

Sorry, the multiple threads have helped me at least understand where I stand. Sorry if this has upset anyone, not my intention.
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