Garden Law Discussion

[Aquietlife]

Hi everyone,

We could do with some advice on planting some shrubbery that will form a small hedge but over the 2mtr height limit.

Our neighbours bungalow is above us on a hill and recently they took their conifer hedge out that is behind their fence line. During winter their fence feel down three times, they have bodged it back up and have to say it is completely awful, they have tried to tell us we broke their fence and then they told the nearby builders they broke their fence when they took some trees down at the other side of our garden in our other neighbours garden. Now these neighbours above us, to us are typical neighbours from hell, they have threatened to sue us, have called us names (never to our face though) said we were too poor to be able to stay in our house, they had a velux window changed that is directly adjacent to our house and had a dormer put in, the council agreed that this dormer should be obscure as it literally is over us and not their own gardens or property, they appealed and because we don't know how to play the system we didn't know the meeting had taken place and the appeal person never came here to view the window and took off the obscurity, the upshot is, the neighbours constantly play with this window and I meen constantly in an intimidating manner.

When they took the conifer hedge (it was only approx 2.3 mtrs tall) we lost our privacy in the lower windows as well and we could wave to them in their office, sitting room and playroom and also a 16ft conversatory looms over us too all these windows look directly into us. They then started pulling the blinds up in the conservatory all the time so we feel like we are in a fish bowl and being watched all time. We put some reed screening up which they didn't say anything about at the time. We then also built a beautiful summerhouse with a pitched roof of cedar shingle which starts after their conservatory finishes on a slab of concrete that was already there when we moved in.

They have reported us to the council for an illegal outbuilding and illegal fencing and also illegal play equipment, we purchased a play area for the kids and placed in directly in line with their childrens play equipment, (the kids get on well) We since found out since we live in an AOANB that we neded permission for the summerhouse which we are applying for and we need permission to leave the reed screening up as it is 2.2 mtrs tall. We got a letter from our neighbours yesterday stating that we had criminally damaged their fence and trespassed on their property to put the screening up and we have 72 hours to remove it or they will forcibly remove it themselves. They really are not nice people at all.

So after all this the main question is how far in your own garden can you plant a line of something that cannot be described as a hedge, ie if we put some evergreen shrubs in 500mm from the fence is this still classed as a hedge, we don't want tall we just want enough to not be able to be overlooked so badly. If there is a tree behind a line of shrubs does that help it not being classed as a hedge. We also don't want to fall foul of loosing them their light, their house is approx 3 mtrs away from the boundary and the conservatory 2 metres. As the conservatory only looks over to us does this come into their possible right to a view or do we have a right to some privacy?

Outside their conservatory we have already planted, some trees, a variagated maple, a red cherry, a gum tree for the evergreen part (this will be kept topped I have no wish for it to out of control) All this give me some privacy higher up but I need to plant some bushes underneath now as they can see right through the bottom of them, will we be in trouble for planting shrubbery there too at the 2.2 mtr height to give us lower privacy.

Sorry if I've waffled but I hope you get the picture, it isn't always the high hedge victim on the other side that is a victim it can also be like us where we need a slightly higher hedge because of the rise in the hill to give us our enjoyment of our garden and away from neighbours that think it is their duty to report us for everything that we do that they don't agree with, BTW they said if we moved the summer house 10ft further down the garden they won't object when we put in planning permission for me. So they just want to dictate where it goes, they have a bush actually higher than the roof (3.2mtr) behind it so they can't even see it where it is.
thanks for ready, any help appreciated.
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A quiet life for me!

[despair]

Your neighbours are clearly architypal BULLIES

They think by lying and trickery they can get everything they want

If they had a LEYLANDI hedge then theres no reason you cant plant one

However I would choose

clumping Bamboo
Photina Red Robin
Philadelphus
Lilac
Variegated Eleagnus
Pyracantha
Escallonia
Laurel

Look around your area and see what grows well in other peoples gardens

Do not be intimidated by these bullies Keep a diary of their actions

Call the police because they are harassing you

You need to hit back hard

Do not move your summer house

Go and see the Planning Officers and explain to them the hell thse neighbours are causing and ask what the planners will allow

Get your local Councillor on side to fight your corner

Put up nets or those fine blinds that you can see out of but nosy neighbours cant see into but above all IGNORE them and do not for one minute show you are upset ..........just fight back HARD

click on pm on my posting and you can send me info or get help and support privately in case they are likely to join this public forum

[hzatph]

Their persistent behaviour will be noted by the council and will count against them as officers get to experience repeated nuisances - they will have seen all this before and will be used to all sorts of stupid NFH activities.

With regard to the hedge, plant a deciduous hedge instead - high hedge law does not count.

There is no restriction on the height of individual shrubs.

The screen is only 20cm too high. Can it be lowered? If so the problem should go away unless AOANB changes things. If it is on your property then they have no rights to move the screening regardless of height.

They are provoking for a reaction - read about them on the self-help articles on www.nfh.org.uk. No point reacting, laugh at their pettiness (it will help if you can), carry on as normal, be polite to them (that will annoy them more than anything). Talk reasonably and openly with the council.

If they do go so far that you have no choice but to react, as despair says it them hard; don't mess about. For example a nasty solicitors letter, tight timetable and threat of legal action (and carry out the threat if they continue). Also try talking to the council or police about harassment. Make sure you collect your evidence first.

I would be inclinded to install CCTV in the garden by the way - make sure it does not get their house and garden any more than the minimum needed to include your boundaries. They can't object to that (but might try). Get a proper system, not a PC based one.

[Aquietlife]

Thanks for the replies, and yes both of us have to agree they are coming across to us as very much dictorial and bullies. We had made sure for the summerhouse and play equipment that we had followed all the rules, ie 5 metres away from the house, no taller than 4 metres etc etc, we didn't even give it a thought about the area of outstanding natural beauty - hence the rule for that is no building can be bigger than 10 cubic metre squared - the councillor has already been around, he was nice and we explained to him about the relationship,he did say that is the council invited us for retrospective planning permission, it would be higly likely that permission would be obtained as they would not to waste anybodies time or money if it was to fail. So because he has allowed us to go for retrospective planning we are hopefull that it will go through, but and there is a big but, our neighbour is on the planning committee for the local parish council and they could influence the other councillors to their favour, we shall ask that at the meeting our applications come up that they are not allowed to sit on the committee and ask that they only be heard as public. The shrubbery we want to plant is in a area we have made specifically for planting to help give us some privacy, where the fence is their house sits some 8 courses of bricks before damp course so you can imagine they ride quite high above us, this is when the 2mtr law is stupid..... 2 mtr to them is like looking a 3 foot fence, they are so high above it in the house and conservatory - I summed them up to somebody else once (the builders they had a go at about the fence falling down) they will smile sweetly, act the victim to your face and then go that extra mile to get their point across after.

We are not like that, we like to live and let live, life is too short for this, our children and family mean the world to us and we could well do without such stupidness and nastiness. Why the heck would anyone want to watch what we get up to in our garden? It is beyond us. But we know whatever we plant will have repercussions and they will report us again, we are worried, but are trying to to get it right now that they can't make us take down or remove bushes and shrubs in the future. Come two years time they will not have a view to our garden from their upstairs windows and if we plant the right shrubs underneath no view from their downstairs windows either, BUT this is when they will go for us again (if something else doesn't crop up before hand which is actually likely!).

So as long as you guys are thinking we can plant the plants like despair said and we keep the shrubs at a containable height but they will all be over the 2mtr restriction along with the trees we have growing they won't really be able to report us?

We have also photographed a lot already, we learned our lesson on that last year..... we have photographic proof that their conifer hedge was higher than the fence if they ever try to say it wasn't. We also photographed the fence every time it blew down and every time they put it back up again, even the screws and nails that are poking through our side which is not very neighbourly at all.

Is is right that whatever you plant if it is in a row it will be classed as a hedge or does it have to be two of the same plants planted together constitutes a hedge. Lastly if we planted a row of shubs just over 500mm in from their fence will this be classed as a hedge?

thanks again
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A quiet life for me!

[despair]

Are you saying that you are not allowed to plant a hedge ?

Who says ?

If you plant what i suggested they are both deciduos and evergreen so plant them alternately and keep them so that the evergreen ones do not touch each other then your hedge of shrubs cannot fall foul of the High Hedge Law if thats what you are concerned about

[Aquietlife]

Yep that is exactly what we are concerned about falling foul of the high hedge law, as they will not hesitate in taking action on it, even if it does cost them money first.

So far at the back we have one large bamboo, 1 smaller bamboo, an elder tree (hope that is right - the one that grows wild everywhere) this is seeming to be dying and we planted a montana to grow through it this year, we then have one even smaller bamboo that doesn't even get half way up the fence, then a tallish cylindrical conifer that is probably about 2.4 or 2.5 metres tall, we have taken down the retaining wall in front of these plants and moving it to give us room to plant some plants in front ie shrubs, we have bought two laurel nobelis, so if we plant one of each with a decidous in the middle this cannot constitute a hedge, we have two butterfly bushes that have self seeded in the front garden, can one of these go between?

thanks for the massively quick response
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A quiet life for me!

[thin and crispy]

Hello Aquietlife.

I'm no expert on this (and hopefully someone more knowledgeable will correct me if I'm wrong), but as I understand it the High Hedge regulations don't automatically lead to a fixed maximum height.

Each case is judged on it's merits, and the maximum height is set according to the detriment that would suffered by the complainant. I believe that the lowest height limit that can be set under the regulations is eight feet.

As your neighbours' house is so much higher than your land, I would imagine your hedge would have to be substantially taller than 8 feet for it to fall foul of the regulations.

[despair]

I believe the OP has totally misunderstood the High Hedge Law and how it could operate

Given that the NFH house is much higher level than theirs any trees/shrubs etc would need to be way above 2 metres high on your property before they could possibly be considered relevant for High Hedge Law on your neighbours land

Theres no maximum height .......its a matter of the effect on your neighbours land in terms of light etc that matters

I would suggest you can plant absolutely everything you like and they would need to be 4 metres high before they could even come close to being considered under the HH law and even then it must be an unbroken line of dense evergreen trees



Removing a retaining wall is worrying though because if it retains the higher land normally it belongs to the higher land or if its yours landslip could occur

[Aquietlife]

Hi

I am getting to understand this now a bit better and believe that as long as we just do the hedge the height to give us the privacy then we shouldn't affect the neighbours too much and block their light, we have no wish to antagonise them at all and never have done, these people seem to take everything as a smack and against them and if it doesn't fit in with their way then they report everything, it goes much further than this with much more that has gone on before but we won't go it to that on here, all we can say is we have never retaliated or done anything to warrant such venomous actions and words from them.

The retaining wall is one we built the ground actually dropped away drastically before we put the wall up, there is a strip on concrete underground that also helps to retain their dirt just inside our boundary, we are ok with leaving that their, we built the wall and put a 500mm stretch of soil behind the wall that goes the length of 3 fence panels, it is this stretch of soil we are now making a over a metre wide to give us more room to plant some more shrubs for the privacy now we have to remove this screening.

The big bamboo we have is VERY BIG ie 4 shoots are probably over 4 metres tall, this is the only plant we ever want to get big, it gives us the privacy we love from the controversial dormer window that should have been obscured. so we won't and will not let any other plant get excessive as it would reduce me to tears to have to cut the bamboo down and loose our privacy again. Our only aide to this is they planted two bamboos right in front of their windows at the right angle for us to not see into them from our upstairs bathroom window but when the screening comes down they still see right over to the right and into our garden and our kitchen and I mean they will be able to see the whites of ours eyes. That is what we are trying to protect.
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A quiet life for me!

[despair]

I see no reason why your screening should have to come down anyway .........fight it ...dont lay down under these bullies

The only way to beat them is to be more devious and one jump ahead

Since their land is higher what retains their land ..........because its THEIR responsibility to have their own retaining wall on their side of the boundary

I can very well imagine all thats gone before with your bullies

been there done that could write a book hence only too happy to talk privately with you