Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post Reply
MacadamB53
Posts: 7037
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:13 pm
Number of Posts per Page: 100
Number of topics per page: 50

Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by MacadamB53 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:10 pm

stufe35 wrote: I am intrigued to understand why you believe the cdm regs would not apply to this construction project.?
supposing they do, what has that got to do with the OP?

stufe35
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:06 pm

Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by stufe35 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:25 am

The op is concerned about the structural integrity of the newly erected fence , these regs would help the op point out to the neighbour and the appropriate authorities if necessary that the op is responsible for ensuring a structurally safe fence is erected and give the op a basis to take action if required. Ie these are the regs that are being flouted by erecting a structurally unsafe fence.

mr sheen
Posts: 2637
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:33 pm

Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by mr sheen » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:15 am

stufe35 wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:27 pm
I am intrigued to understand why you believe the cdm regs would not apply to this construction project.?

My understanding (given that they do apply) is they give clear lines of responsibility to ensure any structures are designed and installed by competent people to recognised standards.

I would love to meet the competent designer who would put their name to that installation.
As I pointed out....even if they do apply....the only relevant people are the Client, Designer and Principal Contractor......NOT neighbours!

mr sheen
Posts: 2637
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:33 pm

Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by mr sheen » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:30 am

stufe35 wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:25 am
The op is concerned about the structural integrity of the newly erected fence , these regs would help the op point out to the neighbour and the appropriate authorities if necessary that the op is responsible for ensuring a structurally safe fence is erected and give the op a basis to take action if required. Ie these are the regs that are being flouted by erecting a structurally unsafe fence.
From the postings here it appears that the OP is not a Structural Engineer. How can the OP determine that the structure is structurally unsafe without reference to an expert?

There are no authorities charged with determining the safety of fences. The OP would need a report from an expert structural engineer that indicates if, and then exactly why, the structure is deemed ‘unsafe’. The report could then be sent to the neighbour who, if necessary, could then act upon it to rectify any issues. If they don’t then, should anything untoward actually happen, then legal action could follow.

There is an additional difficulty with the procedure required outlined above .....the structure is entirely on the neighbour’s land so permission is required for a structural report.

This structure has cost money and by the look of it quite a bit of money so it would be assumed that the payer would have ensured that it is constructed in a reasonable manner so that they get value for money as oppose to a fence that falls down in the first wind.

mr sheen
Posts: 2637
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:33 pm

Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by mr sheen » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:00 am

The original retaining wall was structurally unsound and despite full knowledge of that OP bought the property. The neighbouring property is 2m higher thanOPs so landslide is indeed an issue. Thé neighbour has installed good retaining structure to replace the unsound retaining wall, ie they have fulfilled their requirements.
Personally I would be delighted!
....looks a world better than that old cracked wall and about 1 foot of land has been gained in that narrow alley....time to look on the bright side perhaps.

stufe35
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:06 pm

Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by stufe35 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:12 pm

Mr Sheen
This is a domestic structure built entirely on land owned by the property owner. The fencer has no obligation to give information to a neighbour and even if you could argue that CDM regs apply (which is doubtful) what does that have to do with anyone other than the Principal Contractor, Designer and Client?)
From my understanding the CDM regs apply to private land and domestic projects. I am interested to know why you think it doubtful that the CDM regs apply to this construction project ?

MacadamB53
Posts: 7037
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:13 pm
Number of Posts per Page: 100
Number of topics per page: 50

Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by MacadamB53 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:34 pm

Hi stufe35,

these regs would help the op point out to the neighbour and the appropriate authorities if necessary that the op [sic - you mean neighbour] is responsible for ensuring a structurally safe fence is erected

the appropriate authorities will already be aware - so there is no “if” - it is not necessary.

give the op a basis to take action if required. ie these are the regs that are being flouted by erecting a structurally unsafe fence

so these regs become relevant “if” a structurally unsafe fence has been erected? after the event? who decides it is structurally unsound - the OP?

kind regards, Mac

mr sheen
Posts: 2637
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:33 pm

Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by mr sheen » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:58 pm

stufe35 wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:12 pm
Mr Sheen
This is a domestic structure built entirely on land owned by the property owner. The fencer has no obligation to give information to a neighbour and even if you could argue that CDM regs apply (which is doubtful) what does that have to do with anyone other than the Principal Contractor, Designer and Client?)
From my understanding the CDM regs apply to private land and domestic projects. I am interested to know why you think it doubtful that the CDM regs apply to this construction project ?
The construction has been completed in a safe manner....no injuries have been reported presumably and the designer/contractor has constructed a structure fit for purpose in a safe manner.....so CDM regs have already been complied with so the CDM do not apply to the complaints of a belief by a neighbour with zero evidence of unsafe structure and it being aesthetically unpleasant to a neighbour

stufe35
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:06 pm

Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by stufe35 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:01 pm

who decides it is structurally unsound - the OP?
If the OP suspects it has not been properly designed they would need to seek an expert opinion as mentioned by Mr Sheen. Having seen the photos and being an Civil Engineer myself i am extremely doubtful that fence has been designed by a competent designer and erected to that design. I would be concerned about the risk of it falling in high winds and damaging my property or injuring my children.

The gabion wall however appears perfectly fit for purpose. Not attaractive to everyones eye, my one question is does it require/have planning permission. The firm where i work spends a lot of time getting the "right coloured bricks" to suit the local planners.

The neighbour is duty bound by the CDM regs to ensure structures built on his/her property are suitably designed and installed by competent people...an extract from the regs specifically covering domestic clients is below ..more can be read following the link i posted earlier.

Domestic clients
If you are having work done on your own home, or the home of a family member,
and it is not in connection with a business, you will be a domestic client. The only
responsibility a domestic client has under CDM 2015 is to appoint a principal
designer and a principal contractor when there is more than one contractor.
However, if you do not do this, (as is common practice) your duties as a domestic
client are automatically transferred to the contractor or principal contractor. If you
already have a relationship with your designer before the work starts, the designer
can take on your duties, provided there is a written agreement between you and
the designer to do so.

arborlad
Posts: 8714
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by arborlad » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:52 pm

mr sheen wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:58 pm

The construction has been completed in a safe manner....no injuries have been reported presumably and the designer/contractor has constructed a structure fit for purpose in a safe manner.....


I disagree - from the strapping better suited to a light packing case to the scraps of timber wedged behind the gabion wires, there is not a single element of that structure that is 'fit for purpose' - the whole structure is designed to fail.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

mr sheen
Posts: 2637
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:33 pm

Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by mr sheen » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:40 pm

arborlad wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:52 pm
[quote="mr sheen" post_id=215507 time=<a href="tel:1583845082">1583845082</a> user_id=11922]

The construction has been completed in a safe manner....no injuries have been reported presumably and the designer/contractor has constructed a structure fit for purpose in a safe manner.....


I disagree - from the strapping better suited to a light packing case to the scraps of timber wedged behind the gabion wires, there is not a single element of that structure that is 'fit for purpose' - the whole structure is designed to fail.
[/quote]

A structural engineers report is required to challenge the safety and suitability of construction of the structure.....from the photos looks more suitable and safer than the falling down cracked wall the OP lived with for years!

Viola
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:53 pm

Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by Viola » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:46 pm

The Buildings Control Surveyor of the County Council has received my email with photos of the fixings and fencing structure.

He has replied to say he will attend a site visit when in the area.

arborlad
Posts: 8714
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by arborlad » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:22 pm

mr sheen wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:40 pm
....from the photos looks more suitable and safer than the falling down cracked wall the OP lived with for years!


...................again, I disagree, the gabions might be better at retaining but everything attached to them is poorly specced and badly done.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

Viola
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:53 pm

Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by Viola » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:12 pm

Here's an interesting question:

If the building regs require no planning permission to build a wall up to 2m high, and then also allow a fence up to 2m high on top...

Image

how does one measure this fence height?
Just the planked 1.83m part?
Or the whole 2.4 fence to include all the exposed timber that overlaps down over the wall?

If it's the whole fence to include the wall overlap then planning permission would surely be needed...
and if requested would surely have been refused due to the inappropriate fixing method.

<>

The thing is, planning permission for building a wall in this particular case would easily be granted because there is need for retention, and this option was actually suggested to them by a professional surveyor who was hired by them for advise about how to go about this wall rebuild. This was about18 months ago.
But instead the neighbour's have gone off-piste on their own route, and have chose to leave the gabion wall height relatively low, and then to build a huge, heavy, and ugly fencing structure that challenges the structural integrity of the gabion wire by way of improper attachment.

I find their choice of wall to fence interface rather bizarre. There are plenty of devices on the market which are purposely and well designed to hold fenceposts fast within gabion baskets, and these are far more secure, far safer, and offer far better longevity. Not to mention a lot nicer to look at.
Last edited by Viola on Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

stufe35
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:06 pm

Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by stufe35 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:15 pm

Did they have planning for the gabion wall ?

Post Reply