Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

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Viola
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Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by Viola » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:19 pm

stufe35 wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:15 pm
Did they have planning for the gabion wall ?
No, they didn't need it because it was never the neighbour's intention to go higher than 2m.

I don't think they're the kind of folk who could accept the implications that come with planning permission.
Maybe this is why they didn't want a 3rd level of gabion (?)

arborlad
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Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by arborlad » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:08 pm

Viola wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:12 pm
Here's an interesting question:

If the building regs require no planning permission to build a wall up to 2m high, and then also allow a fence up to 2m high on top...



From a structural point of view, it is two separate structures very badly joined together, from a planning point of view it is all one structure, the section adjacent to the highway would be regarded differently.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

Viola
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Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by Viola » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:14 pm

arborlad wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:08 pm
From a structural point of view, it is two separate structures very badly joined together, from a planning point of view it is all one structure, the section adjacent to the highway would be regarded differently.
The section adjacent to the highway - It's over 1m away from the curb, and was around that height originally, but note how much neater the look is, no visible fence bracing, stone neatly faced up too, note there is no effort to do this between gardens :(

Image

Anyway, i was wondering if the 2.4m overall height of the fence is too high to go without formal planning permission.

Also, does the flying gibbet brace thing lofting over 1 meter above the fence qualify as part of the fence too?

MacadamB53
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Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by MacadamB53 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:49 pm

Hi Viola,

The section adjacent to the highway - It's over 1m away from the curb, and was around that height originally

the development is a new structure so the height of previous structure is irrelevant.

any fence “adjacent” to (“near” to - subjective) a highway used by motor vehicles that is taller than 1 metre in height has not been granted planning permission by the latest GPDO (ie it does not qualify as being “permitted development”) and so is a breach of planning law unless it has been granted planning permission by way of an approved planning application (or has been in situ for +4 years without enforcement action by the LPA).

the LPA have the powers to take enforcement action against any breaches of planning law - if they deem it an appropriate use of their time/money/resources and worthwhile for the public.

in short, your LPA may be interested in taking a look at the section near the highway...

kind regards, Mac

IdefixUK
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Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by IdefixUK » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:09 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:49 pm

the development is a new structure so the height of previous structure is irrelevant.

I think that this is the relevant part of the legislation. Paragraph (c) seems to deal with "means of enclosure maintained, improved or altered.....exceed former height" etc.

The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015

• UK Statutory Instruments
• 2015 No. 596
• SCHEDULE 2
• PART 2
• Class A

Permitted development
A. The erection, construction, maintenance, improvement or alteration of a gate, fence, wall or other means of enclosure.

Development not permitted
A.1 Development is not permitted by Class A if—
(a)the height of any gate, fence, wall or means of enclosure erected or constructed adjacent to a highway used by vehicular traffic would, after the carrying out of the development, exceed—
(i)for a school, 2 metres above ground level, provided that any part of the gate, fence, wall or means of enclosure which is more than 1 metre above ground level does not create an obstruction to the view of persons using the highway as to be likely to cause danger to such persons;
(ii)in any other case, 1 metre above ground level;
(b)the height of any other gate, fence, wall or means of enclosure erected or constructed would exceed 2 metres above ground level;
(c)the height of any gate, fence, wall or other means of enclosure maintained, improved or altered would, as a result of the development, exceed its former height or the height referred to in paragraph (a) or (b) as the height appropriate to it if erected or constructed, whichever is the greater; or
(d)it would involve development within the curtilage of, or to a gate, fence, wall or other means of enclosure surrounding, a listed building.


Regards

Viola
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Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by Viola » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:40 pm

Update:

Still awaiting the Council Surveyor visit...
When i spoke with the surveyor on the phone a few days ago he said that a discussion with the fence builder had taken place, the fence builder had contacted the surveyor, but what was said exactly i don't know yet.
The surveyor said he'd visit here when next in the area. Don't know when that will be (?)

Meanwhile, i have repeatedly requested the neighbours to remove their little bit of forgotten spoil from my garden.
However, the spoil heap was [ see photo below] low and spread out over an area of just a few square meters, and this rise in ground level had been compressed by the weight of the excavator machine.
So to make the spoil easy to see i went out into my garden with folk, rake, and a shovel, to expose it, and get my garden back to the level it was before the brick wall came down.
I managed to find my familiar round manhole cover [ this is my garden level guide ] the cover was buried under more than 6 inches of spoil, a mixture of pea-gravel, earth, concrete bits, and brick rubble.
There is also a section of the old brick wall which was also buried under about 6 inches of compressed spoil.

I did consider simply wheelbarrowing this spoil heap around to the neighbours side garden to let them have it back, but the amount is larger than i expected, and i don't want to escalate any hostility. I think a better plan is to request them to remove it whenever they're ready to in the next week or so.
They can't argue it's theirs with their old brick wall section uncovered...

Image

despair
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Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by despair » Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:10 pm

I would simply put in writing that they use common courtesy and remove all that pile within next 7 days

Your neighbours though clearly do not give a flying fig for how things look from your side

I think i would be installing 2.4 metre high Trellis on the boundary line and plant a plethora of clematis, ivy, passion flowers, summer and winter jasmine and hide their eyesore

Viola
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Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by Viola » Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:41 pm

despair wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:10 pm
Your neighbours though clearly do not give a flying fig for how things look from your side
Yes, sadly this does seem to be the wicked realism that has inflicted my garden boundary, i'm still in a state of shock TBH : (

I had a quick word with next door this afternoon, the fence fitter himself [who happens to be a relation of the household] Just a polite request of all spoil removal from my garden.
The reply was in effect that it was the job of their ground-worker to remove it, and he is coming back soon; apparently with a rather large load of top soil, the intention of which to be used to level their garden... This is an oddity in itself because their gabions fall some way short of any useful height for their garden to actually allow a level playing field [without any surplus rise to their house] so i'm now wondering if hidden behind the austere plank face of the wooden edifice they have cunningly installed some kind of wondrous arrangement to interface with a retention of soil.

Anyway, i advised Mr Fence-fitter that it maybe wise to pause on the soil delivery until after the council surveyor has eyeballed the fence & the peculiarity of the fixings, and then he will have have time to cancel the soil delivery and take the fence back down. At this point we had to agree to disagree and break off the conversation.

<>

Yesterday, while i laboured in my back garden with the unearthing of fallen treasures, i managed to work out why my garden ground level was left 6 to 12 inches higher; the ground worker extensively used an excavator to bucket-drop stone into the gabions, it's probable he needed more height to do this at the start end where the gabions are higher, where the 15 gabions extend along for 15 meters they gradually go downhill, and loose almost a foot of height in said distance. This is clearly demonstrated by the photos of the wood fence stringers that are far more level compared to that of the gabions.
I expect the thoroughly squashed spoil was left there because after a fashion of pancaking it didn't look much of anything from a distance or like anything was there...

despair
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Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by despair » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:15 pm

Sadly i think the whole thing has been designed on back of a fag packet ...you cannot call the finished effect professional and i still suspect their dick head relstive will simply pour soil against the fencing which will of course rot and disintegrate in due course .

The fact none of them will engage in sensible conversation speaks volumes

Seriously suggest you get a trellis up PDQ cover it in climbing plants and sell up to a far bigger bully than your neighbours

Viola
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Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by Viola » Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:09 pm

View from kitchen window:

Image

despair
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Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by despair » Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:22 pm

Not aesthetic or appealing in any way ...lets hope the councils guy finds technical faults with it

Viola
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Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by Viola » Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:32 pm

despair wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:22 pm
Not aesthetic or appealing in any way ...lets hope the councils guy finds technical faults with it
Yes it will indeed be interesting to hear what the CC surveyor has to say about it.

I'm still wondering if the overall dimensions of this fencing structure is too large to erect without planning permission (?)

And that's before the issue of the weight of this huge fence strapped on nothin but gabion wire...

despair
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Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by despair » Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:35 pm

Is that a remnant of the previous wall showing in the photo ? Because it was very close to your house ...have you downloaded a copy of their deeds from official Land Registry website and checked all the attached covenants ....could be illuminating for just a few pounds

Viola
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Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by Viola » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:12 pm

despair wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:35 pm
Is that a remnant of the previous wall showing in the photo ? Because it was very close to your house
The previous double-brick wall foundation was not removed. The gabions were installed directly up against the old foundation, thus the whole structure is well behind their property line.

I'm not sure if the neighbours actually planned it that way, they only have around 4 meters of distance from the back of their house to this boundary fence. It would be beneficial to retain as much of their limited land as possible, and far better to remove the old foundation so the gabion boundary edge could sit on the same position.

It may be a case that the ground-worker they employed made it easy for himself; don't bother dig up foundation - use it as a strait guide line edge to butt the gabions up against. But in doing so this way the neighbours instantly lose a whole brick length of their rear garden, and a little more as the next level gabion is stepped back on top. all together this accounts for over a foot of garden lost.

It i were project manageress, i would have removed the foundation bricks at least, perhaps plonked the gabion boundary edge on top of the concrete foundation, not behind it.
I would also have checked and double checked the level of gabions would stay constant along the 15m of length, this is crucial for tidy stacking of higher levels.

It would appear the ground-worker they employed has been amateurish & slapdash with both the preparations and the installation of gabions, he's done the neighbours no favours by reducing the size of their garden unnecessarily - if they didn't know this would be the case beforehand. The lesson to learn from this is if you want a gabion wall building don't choose a ground-worker who hasn't had any "good and successful" previous experience with them.

Some bricks from the previous wall foundation can be seen in situ here and there along the way:


Image

despair
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Re: Retaining wall replacement is an eyesore.

Post by despair » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:46 pm

Looks like the 3rd gabion along is bent or buckling and the wood rail is not sitting square on it

I honestly cannot see how that fence is going to stay secure in high winds when it rocks against the gabion and stresses those metal bands

I think Arborlad said the same ...let hope the CC surveyor agrees esoecially if he bothers to find out what they are doing with soil on the gabions

Wood eventually rots these days and the bottom rail only looks like CLS timber too

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