Another question re conservation area situation.

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Sad S
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Another question re conservation area situation.

Post by Sad S » Sun May 18, 2014 7:22 pm

A question about what happens to trees right on the boundary of a conservation area.

My son lives in a small house with a small garden, 12m long, in Church Road. Church Road is not in a conservation area, nor are there any TPOs.

Against the back wall of his garden overhang two large trees, whose roots are in the garden of the house backing on to him. This house is in London Road, and London Road IS within a conservation area. The trees in question are limes, 18m tall, with a root protection radius of 6.8m: they are pushing out the boundary wall (into my son's garden). The branch spread is said to be 6m in the direction of my son's garden.

The lime trees significantly overhang my son's garden, and he would like to have the overhanging branches pruned by a tree surgeon. Does the fact that the roots of the lime trees are within a conservation area mean that somebody (son, or neighbour?) should apply for planning permission?

Treeman
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Re: Another question re conservation area situation.

Post by Treeman » Sun May 18, 2014 7:40 pm

Sad S wrote:A question about what happens to trees right on the boundary of a conservation area.

My son lives in a small house with a small garden, 12m long, in Church Road. Church Road is not in a conservation area, nor are there any TPOs.

Against the back wall of his garden overhang two large trees, whose roots are in the garden of the house backing on to him. This house is in London Road, and London Road IS within a conservation area. The trees in question are limes, 18m tall, with a root protection radius of 6.8m: they are pushing out the boundary wall (into my son's garden). The branch spread is said to be 6m in the direction of my son's garden.

The lime trees significantly overhang my son's garden, and he would like to have the overhanging branches pruned by a tree surgeon. Does the fact that the roots of the lime trees are within a conservation area mean that somebody (son, or neighbour?) should apply for planning permission?

Not planning permission but you do need to file a "211" notification of intent

If you are going to use a contractor to implement the works get them to file the "211"

Sad S
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Re: Another question re conservation area situation.

Post by Sad S » Mon May 19, 2014 10:58 am

Thanks - just what I needed to know.

S

MacadamB53
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Re: Another question re conservation area situation.

Post by MacadamB53 » Mon May 19, 2014 7:58 pm

Hi Sad S,

Not planning permission but you do need to file a "211" notification of intent

and just so you know, the very next thing that will happen is the trees will be assessed for whether they should have TPOs.

The lime trees significantly overhang my son's garden, and he would like to have the overhanging branches pruned

is it 'would like to' or 'needs to'?

Kind regards, Mac

Treeman
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Re: Another question re conservation area situation.

Post by Treeman » Mon May 19, 2014 10:11 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi Sad S,

Not planning permission but you do need to file a "211" notification of intent

and just so you know, the very next thing that will happen is the trees will be assessed for whether they should have TPOs.


The lime trees significantly overhang my son's garden, and he would like to have the overhanging branches pruned

is it 'would like to' or 'needs to'?

Kind regards, Mac
Not so, its the proposed works will be assessed and if they threaten to significantly damage the amenity of the tree, and the tree warrants protection an order will be made.


And "like or need", who cares? What difference would it make?

MacadamB53
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Re: Another question re conservation area situation.

Post by MacadamB53 » Mon May 19, 2014 10:24 pm

Hi Treeman,

thanks - I now understand the theory better, but the amenity of the trees must be assessed, no?

And "like or need", who cares? What difference would it make?

because, as far as I'm aware, you don't have to follow any protocol if the work is needed to abate a nuisance.

or am I wrong on that as well?

Kind regards, Mac

ukmicky
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Re: Another question re conservation area situation.

Post by ukmicky » Tue May 20, 2014 2:10 am

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi Treeman,

thanks - I now understand the theory better, but the amenity of the trees must be assessed, no?

And "like or need", who cares? What difference would it make?

because, as far as I'm aware, you don't have to follow any protocol if the work is needed to abate a nuisance.

or am I wrong on that as well?

Kind regards, Mac

It must be an actionable nuisance.
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion

MacadamB53
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Re: Another question re conservation area situation.

Post by MacadamB53 » Tue May 20, 2014 9:32 am

Hi ukmicky,

It must be an actionable nuisance.

of course. thanks.

Appreciative regards, Mac

Treeman
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Re: Another question re conservation area situation.

Post by Treeman » Tue May 20, 2014 1:51 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi ukmicky,

It must be an actionable nuisance.

of course. thanks.

Appreciative regards, Mac

Are you guys saying that abating an actionable nuisance doesn't require a notification??

MacadamB53
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Re: Another question re conservation area situation.

Post by MacadamB53 » Tue May 20, 2014 4:04 pm

Hi Treeman,

we're just relaying what the authorities say:

Do I need permission to remove a dead or dangerous tree?
The simple answer is no. If a tree or any part of is in a dead, dying or dangerous condition then it is exempt from the TPO and Conservation Area legislation. However it is useful if you provide the City Council with 5 days notice prior to any work so that we may deal with any calls that are often generated when a protected tree is felled. To prevent or abate an actionable nuisance (note: this is a legal definition of nuisance) is also exempt. To prevent confusion and avoid possible prosecution it is always advisable to consult with the Arboricultural Officer or take legal advice.


(example of what can be found on many an authority's 'advice' page).

Kind regards, Mac

Treeman
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Re: Another question re conservation area situation.

Post by Treeman » Tue May 20, 2014 6:06 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi Treeman,

we're just relaying what the authorities say:

Do I need permission to remove a dead or dangerous tree?
The simple answer is no. If a tree or any part of is in a dead, dying or dangerous condition then it is exempt from the TPO and Conservation Area legislation. However it is useful if you provide the City Council with 5 days notice prior to any work so that we may deal with any calls that are often generated when a protected tree is felled. To prevent or abate an actionable nuisance (note: this is a legal definition of nuisance) is also exempt. To prevent confusion and avoid possible prosecution it is always advisable to consult with the Arboricultural Officer or take legal advice.


(example of what can be found on many an authority's 'advice' page).

Kind regards, Mac

And its out of date and or wrong

The Dead Dying and Dangerous (DDD) is now Dead and Dangerous

You must now give five days written notification if you intend to do work to a DD tree, unless the works must be done without delay in the interest of public safety. This means there must be an imminent risk of causing serious harm. This is a thankfully seldom occurrence.

If you do works without prior notice you must make a retrospective notification as soon as possible. (Have some evidence to justify your action or a prosecution may well follow)

Works under the actionable nuisance are restricted to such works that are needed to abate the nuisance. Since the actionable is nearly always contact damage as soon as clearance exists the nuisance is abated so any works outside of that are not covered and would need a notification. Actionable nuisances are seldom that urgent so there is no reason you cant make a notification in the first place.

There is nothing in the legislation about the actionable nuisance which has developed by case law. Opinions differ.

MacadamB53
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Re: Another question re conservation area situation.

Post by MacadamB53 » Tue May 20, 2014 8:10 pm

Hi Treeman,

Actionable nuisances are seldom that urgent so there is no reason you cant make a notification in the first place.

but MUST you give notification regardless of the lack of urgency, as you would a DD tree? (is a DD tree a MUST or a SHOULD?)

Kind regards, Mac

ukmicky
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Re: Another question re conservation area situation.

Post by ukmicky » Tue May 20, 2014 9:19 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi Treeman,

Actionable nuisances are seldom that urgent so there is no reason you cant make a notification in the first place.

but MUST you give notification regardless of the lack of urgency, as you would a DD tree? (is a DD tree a MUST or a SHOULD?)

Kind regards, Mac
My understanding is if a tree is dangerous and has the real potential to cause harm, work can commence without notification. However you would need evidence that there was imminent danger from the tree.

Also if a tree is likely to cause imminent damage or is causing damage(,an actionable nuisance) you can remove enough to abate the nuisance without giving prior notice. Obviously if the tree is on your own land and causing damage to your own property any damage would not be a actionable nuisance.

There is case law on what work can be carried out, nessesity and the nuisance vs actionable nuisance question i will find it to see if my understanding is correct,
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion

Treeman
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Re: Another question re conservation area situation.

Post by Treeman » Tue May 20, 2014 9:32 pm

ukmicky wrote:
MacadamB53 wrote:Hi Treeman,

Actionable nuisances are seldom that urgent so there is no reason you cant make a notification in the first place.

but MUST you give notification regardless of the lack of urgency, as you would a DD tree? (is a DD tree a MUST or a SHOULD?)

Kind regards, Mac
My understanding is if a tree is dangerous and has the real potential to cause harm, work can commence without notification. However you would need evidence that there was imminent danger from the tree.

Also if a tree is likely to cause imminent damage or is causing damage(,an actionable nuisance) you can remove enough to abate the nuisance without giving prior notice. Obviously if the tree is on your own land and causing damage to your own property any damage would not be a actionable nuisance.

There is case law on what work can be carried out, nessesity and the nuisance vs actionable nuisance question i will find it to see if my understanding is correct,
And you need to notify retrospectively

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