School Boundary Trees

TO
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:05 pm

Re: School Boundary Trees

Post by TO » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:26 pm

Dear trying2doitright

Despair is giving you false hope.

In reality you have two choices;

1. Cut back to the boundary everything that encroaches over your side.
2. Negotiate a resolution with the school.

The planning condition in relation to the landscaping scheme has expired. The reasoning that it should be maintained to the satisfaction of the Council relates to the bit in the condition requiring replacement planting if plants die etc. Furthermore, the word 'maintained' is part of the reasoning, not the condition which would have been the enforceable bit. The advisory about common boundaries is just that, an advisory, is not enforceable, and relates to common boundaries, which in any event are nothing to do with your problem, which is planting on the school side of the boundary, common or otherwise.

The school, as can you and your neighbours, plant what you/they like on your repective land, even right up to the boundary. You have the right to cut encroaching branches and roots back to the boundary. Other than that, negotiating, maybe through your Councillor, is the only way, even if that means helping to pay for the work to ease the way.

trying2doitright
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Re: School Boundary Trees

Post by trying2doitright » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:30 pm

Hi To, thank you for your time and advise, it is much appreciated.
Kindest Regards

TO
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:05 pm

Re: School Boundary Trees

Post by TO » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:13 pm

Trying to get a resolution via a 24 year old planning permission is a wild goose chase, as is everything else on the evidence we have. Even if the development wasn't in accordance with the permission the time for enforcement has long since past. And there's nothing in the decision that would have helped in the first place anyway.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but that's the truth of the matter.

Schools are cash-strapped so offering to help, maybe dressed up as creating a woodland/outdoor classroom involving the little cherub, may work, it may not. But get some proper advice, not internet advice, and pursue it in a positive manner by demonstrating the benefits of managing and using the space well. There's plenty doing it.

https://sustainablehealthcare.org.uk/wh ... nhs-forest

https://nhsforest.org/evidence

despair
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Re: School Boundary Trees

Post by despair » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:17 pm

TO

The very sad part is disabled pensioners reliant on state pension are highly unlikely to be able to afford the costs of cutting back these trees

trying2doitright
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:25 pm

Re: School Boundary Trees

Post by trying2doitright » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:01 pm

Hi To,
Your explanation re the planning conditions made me realise that there is nothing we can do about the trees. I am very disappointed, my neighbours are too, but at least we can put that issue to rest now. Thank you for your help.
I visited both of your links and read them with interest. After reading through the “Evidence of Benefits” I sat for a while ‘eyeing’ up all of the references, then asked myself, “If these cover the positive, what do I know about the negative?”
As you will know from my posts - we are living in very close proximity to a large belt of mature trees but contrary to the mounting research evidence, e.g. proven health, social, environmental and financial benefits, they are proving to have adverse effect on us. I remembered the Aborist man shaking his head as he informed me that there were nine Silver Birch trees planted behind mine and my adjoining neighbours’ back garden fence, so being inspired by the ‘Evidence of Benefits’ and yet not really knowing what I was doing, I went to the search engine and typed in, Research, Silver Birch, Human Health and after quite a while of clicking on numerous links I came up with the following:
https://docplayer.net/38835167-Silver-b ... aland.html
http://www.Ighn.org.uk/uploads/1/1/6/9/ ... h-hume.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... rgy_impact
The first research papers (2006) shocked me deeply. I am now aware that living in such close proximity to these Silver Birch trees exposes me to a high risk of Pollinosis. I am also informed by this research paper that exposure to birch pollen has implications for babies and young children also.
My second saved link is to an article in ‘Allergy Today’ (2016). I found this easy to read and very informative. It focused on trees and explained the key positive and negative impacts of pollen in the modern cities.
The third link (2018) involved scrolling down a bit until the appearance of the book; “Urban Green Zones and Related Pollen Allergy” appeared. The authors’ analysis highlights the clear need for guidelines regarding the design and planning of urban green spaces with a low allergy impact.
I’ve read so much about trees over the last couple of days I don’t know whether I’m coming or going. I would be very interested to hear other people’s opinion on the ‘risk v benefit’ re trees.
Kindest Regards
P.S. “More Europeans will be allergic to pollen if no measure is taken to reduce exposure.”
European Aerobiology Society (EAS) President Dr. Michel Thibaudon said: “Highly allergenic trees are planted close to people’s houses and schools, because pollen emissions and their interaction with human activities are not taken into account when planning. We need to systematically collect this data to take informed decisions to protect our health from pollen emissions”.
http://www.efanet.org/resources/library ... d-day-2015

TO
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Re: School Boundary Trees

Post by TO » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:28 pm

The choices you have remain; trim to the boundary, badger the school into doing something, try and work with the school to get relief. If option 1 was a goer you'd have done it, so that's out of the window. Option 2 isn't working and won't because schools have little enough money to spend on educating children and can't waste it on unnecessary stuff, so that's out of the window. Option 3 may or may not work, but you will have to engage with the school in a positive manner.

There has been an awful lot of research undertaken on trees and pollen. Some trees appear to be more allergenic than others, but how many people do you know who are severley allergic to tree pollen. In all the years that human beings have lived with trees how many have died from a tree pollen allergy.

I appreciate that you want the trees removed, but they're not under your control, trying to bully the school into doing your bidding using information which just doesn't stack up in your favour isn't working or going to work.

You can do what you're entitled to and get some relief. You can dig your heels in and demand the school does your bidding on the basis of irrelevant information and get nowhere, or you can try and work positively with the school to achieve your aims.

There are always cost/benefits to everything, not just trees. That's why thousands are killed and seriously injured on the roads each year and many thousands die as a result of vehicle pollution, But you continue to drive because the benefits of using a car outweigh the harm.

The Health and Safety Executive have put a price on a human life. If it costs more than that to save a life it's not worth it.

If Railtrack were to install a failsafe system to stop trains running red lights why don't they. Lives would be saved. But if the cost of the system is £200 million and it saves 5 lives a year, a life being worth £2 million, over it's 10 year operational life the system would save 50 lives with a total value of £100 million. The cost was £200million the benefits £100 million. The cost outweighs the benefit, but tell that to the families of the deceased. Or that the value of their dead relative was just a number, £2 million.

That's how cost/benefit works. Some loose so that most win.

Apply that to your trees.

£2 million is the HSE's current Value of a Statistical Life.

despair
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Re: School Boundary Trees

Post by despair » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:38 pm

Simply for information

Anyone affected by Hayfever and an entire bunch of allergies

Birch pollen is the primary instigator of the entire cascade of problems

TO
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:05 pm

Re: School Boundary Trees

Post by TO » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:08 pm

despair wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:38 pm
Simply for information

Anyone affected by Hayfever and an entire bunch of allergies

Birch pollen is the primary instigator of the entire cascade of problems
Your post doesn't make sense. A lack of punctuation, syntax and grammar are the issues.

liveinpeace
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Re: School Boundary Trees

Post by liveinpeace » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:45 am

To
Do you own a red pen and some star stickers by any chance?

Morgan Sweet
Posts: 166
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Re: School Boundary Trees

Post by Morgan Sweet » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:17 am

I agree with Despair, the law should be changed so that the tree owner is compelled to remove any overhanging branches. Strange that Councils are very quick to write to people with overhanging branches asking that they must be removed otherwise the council will undertake the work and seek costs from the tree owner.

The best bet is to let them know that the problem and your campaign is not going away; do involve your local councillors and perhaps seek sympathy and publicity from the local press/radio, also speak to your local Citizens Advice Bureaux.

TO
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:05 pm

Re: School Boundary Trees

Post by TO » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:00 am

liveinpeace wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:45 am
To
Do you own a red pen and some star stickers by any chance?
I own pens every colour of the rainbow, and I have more stars than there are in the universe.

Mounting a campaign isn' working. The press if they are interested won't be for long, and eventually the school will just stop engaging with the neighbours.

Councils can only charge tree owners for removing overhanging branches where they have a lawful right to do so. E.g where tree owners are committing a criminal offence by allowing their vegetation to obstruct the highway.

Changing the law so that tree owners are compelled to cut back overhanging branches isn't going to happen anytime soon, if at all.

There remain three options; the neighbours cut back to the boundary, the neighbours aren't prepared to do this. Campaign to get the school to cut back the trees, this isn't working. Work with the school in a positive manner to achieve your aims.

What advice do you think Citizens Advice, or any solicitor will give that will help.

mugwump
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Re: School Boundary Trees

Post by mugwump » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:15 am

TO wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:28 pm

If Railtrack were to install a failsafe system to stop trains running red lights why don't they. Lives would be saved. But if the cost of the system is £200 million and it saves 5 lives a year, a life being worth £2 million, over it's 10 year operational life the system would save 50 lives with a total value of £100 million. The cost was £200million the benefits £100 million. The cost outweighs the benefit, but tell that to the families of the deceased. Or that the value of their dead relative was just a number, £2 million.

That's how cost/benefit works. Some loose so that most win.

Apply that to your trees.

£2 million is the HSE's current Value of a Statistical Life.
You are correct. I was involved in safety at the time of the Ladbrook Grove disaster albeit on the military aircraft side.

We managed to get hold of all the reports. The reason that the trains did not have ATP (Automatic Train Protection) which would have prevented it was because of the result of the cost/benefit analysis.

It came to the conclusion that based on the average number of deaths on the railways it was cheaper to pay compensation than install ATP in all the rolling stock

IdefixUK
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Re: School Boundary Trees

Post by IdefixUK » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:55 pm

Off topic, I know but anyone interested in railway safety systems, or rather the failures thereof, should read "Red for Danger" by L. T. C. Rolt . A facinating read, dealing with U.K. railway disasters through history. You would rather walk after reading it!


Regards.

Morgan Sweet
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Re: School Boundary Trees

Post by Morgan Sweet » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:00 pm

In response to TO
[quote
What advice do you think Citizens Advice, or any solicitor will give that will help.
[/quote]

I do not presume to know, it was just my thoughts in hoping to help someone with a problem. I have found both sources of legal information helpful to me.

You give your advice, I give mine; it is up to the OP which (if any) advice they consider helpful.

Collaborate
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Re: School Boundary Trees

Post by Collaborate » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:49 am

Morgan Sweet wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:00 pm
In response to TO

I do not presume to know, it was just my thoughts in hoping to help someone with a problem. I have found both sources of legal information helpful to me.

You give your advice, I give mine; it is up to the OP which (if any) advice they consider helpful.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't TO a Tree Officer? Assuming that is correct, why would you need to look beyond any advice he/she chooses to proffer on this subject? Both practical and legal.

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