Fallen leaves and fruit

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thin and crispy
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Re: Fallen leaves and fruit

Post by thin and crispy » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:17 am

span wrote: Why don't you lop off the overhanging branches? Trim them back to the boundary? No more falling fruit, and cuts down on blown leaf litter too.
I have cut most of them back already (which, at the time, sent him into a frenzy of frustration and hammering). Much of the fruit that ends up on my side comes from his weird habit of balancing his apples on the top of my fence until they fall off. He then takes away the ones that fall his side and pesters me about the ones that fall on mine.

mr sheen wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:03 pm
The OP has described a person that s/he is in a dispute with from an individual subjective perspective. There is no objective data available.
It is not appropriate to digress to offensive comments about people with disabilities.
Recommending Mob humiliation may result in violent response. Diagnosing people from comments made by a poster is ridiculous and If the person is disabled, inciting action against them is not only offensive but may be a criminal offence.

If the OP is concerned about the behaviour of a neighbour, the options are - ignore it; move; take action if behaviour is actionable; call police if behaviour amounts to a criminal offence.
I quite agree. My preferred course of action is to ignore him, which is precisely what he doesn't want. There's no way I'm moving because of someone like that. My solicitor already threatened him with legal action after he chopped down a tree in my garden; and I called the police (to no avail) when he tried to break in in 2004.

As for a 'diagnosis', I've been wondering what's wrong with him for the last 20 years. I do know he has had 'contact' with the local mental health services. I'm no psychiatrist, but I've read a lot about the kind of traits he exhibits, and my best guess is that he has something like an egotistical personality disorder. He's not stupid in the sense of having a low IQ, and he seems moderately clued up about many topics. When you first speak to him, he comes across as quite educated, but after a couple of minutes you begin to realise something is missing mentally. He has a belief that he is superior to everyone and is obsessive in the extreme about a variety of very odd things. He especially dislikes people doing things to their house or garden without his approval. One aspect of that is a fanatical hatred of uPVC: he nearly had a fit when I had a new front door installed. I have a CCTV showing him standing in front of my house, gesturing in despair at the new door and all of my windows while having a conversation over his right shoulder with some non-existant person. (Actually I've got quite a collection of 'amusing' CCTV clips of him, but that's a different story.)

Fortunately, I don't live in fear of violence. That would be too blatant for him (apart from the fact that he knows he would meet with a vigorous defence). He prefers sly and sneaky tactics: causing damage when he thinks he won't get caught, intercepting mail and parcels etc. I think that's why the CCTV put a stop to his harassment for such a long time. Obviously something has started him off again recently - possibly it was losing his job in the family business. (After his father died a few years back, my neighbour wasn't trusted to take over running the firm. The board of directors, who were installed in his place, tolerated him for as long as they could, but now they've kicked him out on his ear.)

Anyway, that's all a bit of a digression. I'm grateful for everyone's input, but does anyone know what the law says about ownership of his wind-fallen fruit and what it obliges me (and him) to do with regard to collecting or returning the fruit?

EDIT: Thanks for the info ukmicky. For some reason I didn't see your post initially. That sounds like a reasonable approach for next year. I doubt my neighbour will agree, but that's his problem. Thanks again.
Prejudice, not being founded on reason, cannot be removed by argument. Samuel Johnson.

IdefixUK
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Re: Fallen leaves and fruit

Post by IdefixUK » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:43 am

You state that it is your fence. Provided the top of the fence remains lower than 2m. you might consider fitting an arris rail to the top of the panels to make fruit balancing impossible. You should fit it so any attempt to balance fruit on the top will result in the fruit falling towards the land of your neighbour.

Regards

span
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Re: Fallen leaves and fruit

Post by span » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:35 am

Or just randomly knock his apple over into his side. I mean, if he's waiting for them to topple over, no harm in giving them a helping nudge? Hot to be easier than stooping down to pick them up off your ground....

despair
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Re: Fallen leaves and fruit

Post by despair » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:08 pm

Maybe loss of income will force him to move ...you can but hope

I agree about fitting shaped rails of some sort to your fences so that Apples fall his side rather than staying put

He obviously thinks he is "lord of the manor" and all around must do as he says

Since he is now unemployed his behaviour might sadly get even more stupid and obsessive as he dreams up more devious ways to be a nuiscance

Any judge would laugh him out of court i he tried to claim you should return apples and leaves as he is demanding

I trust despite CCTV .....you have locked gates so his only way in would be to smash fencing

20 years of that idiots behaviour must be very wearing indeed

arborlad
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Re: Fallen leaves and fruit

Post by arborlad » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:26 pm

thin and crispy wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:17 am

Anyway, that's all a bit of a digression. I'm grateful for everyone's input, but does anyone know what the law says about ownership of his wind-fallen fruit and what it obliges me (and him) to do with regard to collecting or returning the fruit?



I don't believe the law places any obligation on you as regards the wind-fallen fruit, other than to accept it as you would with leaves and detritus from the same tree and deal with it in a responsible manner, whilst still attached to the tree it is obviously still in the neighbours ownership. Separating apples from pears, ripe from rotten, edible from inedible is not something the man on the Clapham Omnibus would be expected to do.

Whilst I fully trust your description of your interaction with your neighbour, there is not the slightest chance that description can be used to diagnose any sort of condition and yet despair continues to do so - causing dissent and discord in the process.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

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thin and crispy
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Re: Fallen leaves and fruit

Post by thin and crispy » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:16 pm

IdefixUK wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:43 am
You state that it is your fence. Provided the top of the fence remains lower than 2m. you might consider fitting an arris rail to the top of the panels to make fruit balancing impossible. You should fit it so any attempt to balance fruit on the top will result in the fruit falling towards the land of your neighbour.
We had to do something similar with our front wall years ago, as he used to use the flat coping stones as a walk-way and a storage area. The new one deters that kind of abuse, but he became more unstable than usual when I told him I was going replace the wall. I think that's what prompted his attempted break-in in 2004. (Oops. That's reminded me, I still haven't done anything to the house wall he told me he wanted re-pointing twenty years ago. That must be really p***ing him off.)

span wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:35 am
Or just randomly knock his apple over into his side. I mean, if he's waiting for them to topple over, no harm in giving them a helping nudge?
I give them more than a 'helping nudge' when I see them. I don't always see them in time unfortunately.

despair wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:08 pm
I trust despite CCTV .....you have locked gates so his only way in would be to smash fencing

20 years of that idiots behaviour must be very wearing indeed
Yes, there's no way in other than through, or over, the fence - although he did once enter my garden via the roof of an outbuilding.

It's not so wearing now that I've given up trying to maintain any kind of civil relationship with him or his partner. We just ignore him now, whereas he used to use our natural tendency to be polite and neighbourly as a way to engage us in conversation and then start hectoring us about his latest bit of lunacy.

arborlad wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:26 pm
I don't believe the law places any obligation on you as regards the wind-fallen fruit, other than to accept it as you would with leaves and detritus from the same tree and deal with it in a responsible manner, whilst still attached to the tree it is obviously still in the neighbours ownership. Separating apples from pears, ripe from rotten, edible from inedible is not something the man on the Clapham Omnibus would be expected to do.
Thanks arborlad. That's kind of what I was thinking but its good to know someone else has the same opinion. At least I know I'm not on the wrong side of the law by simply ignoring his demands. I might do what ukmicky suggested though and give him one day a year to come and collect his fruit - a fully supervised and time-limited visit of course. I'm sure that will please him.
Prejudice, not being founded on reason, cannot be removed by argument. Samuel Johnson.

despair
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Re: Fallen leaves and fruit

Post by despair » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:02 pm

If you do give him one day a year permission do make sure theres 2 other witnesses on hand too

Nothing like an audience to put such mental derangement back into its shell

Uriah Heap
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Re: Fallen leaves and fruit

Post by Uriah Heap » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:01 pm

v

Uriah Heap
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Re: Fallen leaves and fruit

Post by Uriah Heap » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:10 pm

thin and crispy wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:59 pm

I don't want to bore you with the history, but members who have read some of my previous posts (both here and on nfh.org.uk) will understand what a difficult and obsessive (I'd say mentally unstable) person he is; and I'm quite sure this is just a continuation of the low-level harassment which he started 20 years ago.
Tried to look this up but cant find nfh page, I keep getting error 404. Is the adress right?

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thin and crispy
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Re: Fallen leaves and fruit

Post by thin and crispy » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:38 pm

I think its the correct URL, but I haven't been on that forum for years and it's no longer bookmarked on my PC.
If I have the right address, it looks like that site has now closed down. Shame if it has; I'm sure it helped a lot of people.
Prejudice, not being founded on reason, cannot be removed by argument. Samuel Johnson.

Uriah Heap
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Re: Fallen leaves and fruit

Post by Uriah Heap » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:22 am

Pity I was just interested in how your neighbour started creating all the trouble as Ive had my own fair share of neighbour problems, cameras pointing in my windows, superior censored looking down on me and the Mrs, that sort of thing. It can eat at you when you have got bad neighbours. You seem like you have been able to cope with it though. Probably done the best thing to ignore him, people like that feed on attension and bullying.
thin and crispy wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:17 am

Obviously something has started him off again recently - possibly it was losing his job in the family business. (After his father died a few years back, my neighbour wasn't trusted to take over running the firm. The board of directors, who were installed in his place, tolerated him for as long as they could, but now they've kicked him out on his ear.)
You know a lot about him, have you done some digging to fight back? I bet this is why you are so anti-hippy? :?: No offence meant, just wondered.

TO
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Re: Fallen leaves and fruit

Post by TO » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:44 pm

The fruit belongs to the tree owner. This is the case if the fruits are attached to the tree, they have fallen by natural causes, or plucked off by the neighbour.

The fruit/tree owner can, at their convenience, and as often as they like, enter onto the neighbours property to get their fruit. However, in doing so they must not cause damage, or take longer than necessary.

The neighbour does not have to look after the fruit, nor do they have to do their gardening in accordance with the tree owners wishes.

What to do. Be civil. Offer back the fruit and leaves. If the owner wants them return them to the agreed place. If the owner doesn't want them, dispose of in an appropriate manner.

Morgan Sweet
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Re: Fallen leaves and fruit

Post by Morgan Sweet » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:26 pm

TO wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:44 pm

The fruit/tree owner can, at their convenience, and as often as they like, enter onto the neighbours property to get their fruit. However, in doing so they must not cause damage, or take longer than necessary.
Are you sure that this is the case? I appreciate that under the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992 you can enter a neighbour's land to do some preservation works such as felling trees / hedges and clearing ditches etc., but I did not know that it covers recovering fallen fruit. The neighbour can also refuse a request for access and an application then has to be made to the courts to be granted access, but in my experience it is only granted to undertake some form of preservation works.

Perhaps there is another act/law regarding fruit that I am not aware of.

TO
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Re: Fallen leaves and fruit

Post by TO » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:21 pm

Morgan Sweet wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:26 pm
TO wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:44 pm

The fruit/tree owner can, at their convenience, and as often as they like, enter onto the neighbours property to get their fruit. However, in doing so they must not cause damage, or take longer than necessary.
Are you sure that this is the case?
Yes.
Morgan Sweet wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:26 pm
Perhaps there is another act/law regarding fruit that I am not aware of.
Yes, and it's been this way for centuries.

IdefixUK
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Re: Fallen leaves and fruit

Post by IdefixUK » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:47 pm

Some of the legal issues have been discussed in some detail in a post by 'eddieboy' in 'trees' started on Wed Aug11th 2010.
I would have posted a link but I seem unable to do that.....any one help ?

Thanks

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