Advice on finding a surveyor to determine boundary?

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thin and crispy
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Re: Neighbour refuses to stop cutting hedge on our property

Post by thin and crispy » Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:06 am

If the hedge is rooted on your side of the boundary, it's your hedge; and your neighbour has no right to cut past the boundary - it's technically criminal damage if he does. Four suggestions:

1. Threaten to report him to the police. Although they will probably take some convincing to do anything, the shock might just stop your neighbour from cutting the hedge.

2. Get your solicitor to write him a letter, explaining his lack of rights in the matter.

3. Tell him you want a higher boundary and if he doesn't stop cutting your hedge, you will remove it and install a two metre high fence. It will cost some money, but it will solve your problem.

4. Get some steel mesh of the kind builders use for reinforcing concrete slabs and wedge it against your chain-link fence. Fix it in position with cable ties etc. If it stands high enough (maximum 2 metres), it will make it hard for your neighbour to cut the top on your side. It won't look nice from his side though, but that's an incentive for him to let your hedge grow.

None of these is likely to improve neighbour relations, so be prepared for fall-out.
Prejudice, not being founded on reason, cannot be removed by argument. Samuel Johnson.

TO
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Re: Neighbour refuses to stop cutting hedge on our property

Post by TO » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:20 pm

There was a period when the boundaries between Council houses were defined using 3ft high chain link fences and concrete posts. It was also usual to plant privet, not box, hedges along the boundaries.

zhuffzilla15
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:41 am

Ageing and anger over control of surrounding environment.

Post by zhuffzilla15 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:16 pm

I have lived in my new property for nearly two years now and my elderly next door neighbours have taken a strong dislike to me almost from day one (but from speaking to other neighbours they are also pretty quarrelsome with everyone) but I feel that their anger is more likely related to the ageing process rather than a personal attack against me, I was wondering what the best way to go around getting support for them?

My neighbour has complained to me numerous times since we have moved in but looking back almost all of the complaints seem to be about something outside of their control, a few examples:
  • They get angry at anyone who parks outside of their property (it is a public street with no restrictions).
  • They trim their own hedges but also hedges on my property by leaning over the boundary - when I ask them to stop they get angry and tell me things like I have no right to stop them.
  • They get angry at the binmen if the bin isn't put back exactly in front of their property (I have seen them stand next to the binmen and take the bin from the back of the truck numerous times).
  • Recently we had builders over and they started shouting at them because of the drilling noise (it was less than 2 hours on a weekday and was the first time we had made any loud noises in the house).
  • Countless times I have been beckoned over and told something is wrong with my garden (sometimes things like mess, sometimes things like attracting too many starlings by putting bird food out).
Over the last year I have just come to accept that I have neighbours on the grumpy side and have generally ignored it (both in their early/mid 80s) but recently their behaviour has become aggressive, they have started swearing and shouting at me and demands are starting to become more constant and much more one sided (sometimes they have beckoned me over just to tell me off but get upset / raise their voices with me if I try and speak back to them) so more recently I have just started to put my headphones in when I am outside and tend to ignore them.

I always try and give them space, let them say their piece usually either apologies or just let them have their say and get on with my day (I work in an environment with lots of patients with learning difficulties so am aware of avoiding conflict and diffusing aggressive behaviour etc)
but this is starting to get towards a point that I am constantly aware that my neighbours are almost out to get me and are finding fault almost anything.

Looking back I think that this behaviour is less of a personality quirk and more related to some of the symptoms of age related disorders such as dementia so I was wondering what might be the best way got get support for them?

Reporting them to the Police seems to be a bit heavy handed and will almost certainly make the situation worse but I am not aware of any other people I could speak to about this issue as I am not related to them and am not a carer.

mr sheen
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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:33 pm

Re: Ageing and anger over control of surrounding environment.

Post by mr sheen » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:09 am

Best to ignore everything and all the trivial nonesense you describe and get on with your life. Awkward neighbours is not confined to a specific age and these appear to be difficult neighbours that are best dealt with by ignoring them.

However, you not have to tolerate behaviour that may come under the criminal justice system. There is a line at which the Police should be called (irrespective of their age - all adults are responsible for their own behaviour) such a line is if you are subject to verbal abuse with swearing and intimidation in public since it may be a breach of the peace or if you are subject to a specific threat.

It is nice to be concerned about elderly people where they are vulnerable and need your help. However all elderly people are adults and responsible for their own actions and have the RIGHT to manage their life how they wish. You cannot force them to get any help, that is none of your business and you have no right to be trying to assess how the ageing process may or may not be affecting how these adults manage their lives.

If the people have family then a quiet and polite word with a family member may be warranted but you need to assess whether that may make things worse.

siteone
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Location: Southampton

Re: Ageing and anger over control of surrounding environment.

Post by siteone » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:09 am

They have dementia bless them, but the support isnt there for the lower levels.

Maybe do ask the police for advice as mr sheen has suggested from the police who might get them more support if needed. Sadly for us all they are the only route to go.

Personally I dont talk to my neighbours and I feel the best route to go, its not chelsea flower show, its a home my home.

zhuffzilla15
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:41 am

Advice on finding a surveyor to determine boundary?

Post by zhuffzilla15 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:41 pm

I live in a semi which is mostly separated by hedges both front and back (ex 1940s council houses)

The front is box with chain link fence that runs pretty much down the middle of the hedge
the back is a beech and my neighbours garden is about a foot higher and he has built up concrete slabs to retain the soil which are right up against the bottom trunks of each of the beech trees (see picture)

My neighbour has always been quite touchy about me trimming the hedges and when I asked him to only cut up to the boundary line about a year ago he got very angry and told me the hedge belonged to him and even though it was planted on our side of the chain link fence it was his because he had been cutting it for the last 30 years.

Over the weekend I neatened up my side of the hedge (my garden is on the left) just the side and not the top which is about a foot inside of the fence at the top of the garden.

my neighbour has just put a letter through my door saying that:
The boundary belongs to them as their "conveyancing clearly states it is theirs"
"I have no right to touch any part of the hedges front and back as they entirely belong to him",
"the chain link fence is not the boundary and this was only put up to stop cats and rabbits from going through the hedge"

my conveyancing didn't say anything about who was responsible for which boundary (no T or H marks on any boundary line) - but the title deeds did mention a chain fence separating the property. (although it didn't state which side).

I have no interest in battling this out and have no idea on the legal complexity of boundary dispute so I just want to determine the boundary and pop a fence up and move on- I have attempted the olive branch a few times but it has just resulted in more shouting.

my plan is to just send them a letter saying i want to arrange for an independent surveyor to determine the boundary and ask if they are ok with the surveyor assessing from their side as well as ours - does anyone have any recommendations on what sort of surveyor I need and how much It is likely to cost?



https://photos.app.goo.gl/9NomJBmWdeksjBP27

IdefixUK
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Re: Advice on finding a surveyor to determine boundary?

Post by IdefixUK » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:16 pm

Hello again zhuffzilla15.
I presume this is the same fence, same neighbour and same problem as one your other threads.
You might get best response from members if you either delete this new thread and tag the question to your older thread (if you still can) or ask the site admin to "merge your threads".

Regards

zhuffzilla15
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:41 am

Re: Advice on finding a surveyor to determine boundary?

Post by zhuffzilla15 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:43 am

Hi IdefixUK - apologies I wasn't aware of the board etiquette
my initial post is here - viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21324&p=208829#p208829 which was about how my neighbour was cutting the top of the hedge across the property line.

I did post another link here viewtopic.php?f=20&t=21398&p=210439#p210439 as my neighbours are quite old and aggressive particularly to me - since then I have spoken to the neighbours on the other side of their property who tell me they have had trouble with our shared neighbours for over 20 years so i no longer thing the issue is dementia.

hope that clarifies things.
IdefixUK wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:16 pm
Hello again zhuffzilla15.
I presume this is the same fence, same neighbour and same problem as one your other threads.
You might get best response from members if you either delete this new thread and tag the question to your older thread (if you still can) or ask the site admin to "merge your threads".

Regards

mr sheen
Posts: 2362
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:33 pm

Re: Advice on finding a surveyor to determine boundary?

Post by mr sheen » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:47 am

It is highly unlikely that this neighbour will take a blind bit of notice of what a surveyor has to say and hence you will probably just be wasting your money.

By sending you a letter, you are now in dispute over the boundary/hedge.

Check your deeds, ex-council properties often come with endless covenants and details about fences, hedges and boundaries etc.

You can post the details here anonymised and people will then be able to advise on a response to his letter that will not cost any money. He has initiated the dispute and therefore would be the one that would initiate legal action which would be a colossal waste of money.

arborlad
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Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Advice on finding a surveyor to determine boundary?

Post by arborlad » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:51 am

zhuffzilla15 wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:41 pm

I have no interest in battling this out and have no idea on the legal complexity of boundary dispute so I just want to determine the boundary and pop a fence up and move on- I have attempted the olive branch a few times but it has just resulted in more shouting.

my plan is to just send them a letter saying i want to arrange for an independent surveyor to determine the boundary and ask if they are ok with the surveyor assessing from their side as well as ours - does anyone have any recommendations on what sort of surveyor I need and how much It is likely to cost?



Only if this escalates way beyond what right thinking individuals would consider reasonable, is it necessary to engage a surveyor.

You already have some uncertainty of where the boundary lies - don't add to that by erecting a fence.

Can we see a photo of the front hedge looking towards the house.

I have asked for your threads to be merged.
Last edited by arborlad on Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

siteone
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Location: Southampton

Re: Advice on finding a surveyor to determine boundary?

Post by siteone » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:52 am

It looks to me, quickly,. without reading other threads

This is height issue.

Ask him what height he wants and if you agree, keep it at that.

arborlad
Posts: 8119
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Advice on finding a surveyor to determine boundary?

Post by arborlad » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:40 am

siteone wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:52 am
It looks to me, quickly,. without reading other threads

This is height issue.

Ask him what height he wants and if you agree, keep it at that.



No - not when a neighbour is stating this: "I have no right to touch any part of the hedges front and back as they entirely belong to him",
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

siteone
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:34 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: Advice on finding a surveyor to determine boundary?

Post by siteone » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:24 pm

arborlad wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:40 am
siteone wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:52 am
It looks to me, quickly,. without reading other threads

This is height issue.

Ask him what height he wants and if you agree, keep it at that.



No - not when a neighbour is stating this: "I have no right to touch any part of the hedges front and back as they entirely belong to him",

The picture I saw shows a hedge growing thorough a fence. One side is higher than the other.

Then they need to be cut back to the fence, if they are not for the enjoyment of the neighbour.

I have a hedge on my side at my house. My neighbour cuts back to where they want it to be. I am not sure if I can even control what they do.

zhuffzilla15
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:41 am

Re: Advice on finding a surveyor to determine boundary?

Post by zhuffzilla15 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:46 pm

mr sheen wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:47 am
It is highly unlikely that this neighbour will take a blind bit of notice of what a surveyor has to say and hence you will probably just be wasting your money.

By sending you a letter, you are now in dispute over the boundary/hedge.

Check your deeds, ex-council properties often come with endless covenants and details about fences, hedges and boundaries etc.

You can post the details here anonymised and people will then be able to advise on a response to his letter that will not cost any money. He has initiated the dispute and therefore would be the one that would initiate legal action which would be a colossal waste of money.

Hi mr sheen,
Deeds checked - it mentions that a boundary at the end (which is a field) is marked by a wire fence but no other boundaries are mentioned in great detail (and nothing about a side you are responsible to maintain)
The land registry documents make no mention of T or H marks stating ownership : https://photos.app.goo.gl/m3xPPSqaKp4h79to8

only covenant in the deeds relates to not keeping livestock

This is the letter that they sent : https://photos.app.goo.gl/CAV5Hz13Ctsv2tZj8
and just to clarify some of the points they make in the letter :
we have never claimed that we "own" the boundary, all I asked is they stop cutting over the line of the chain link fence - they ignored this and carried on cutting their side and the top, after that point I have never attempted to cut the top of either hedge and just ignored them and kept my side tidy.

The last time I spoke to them about the boundary they told me that the inner chain fence was the boundary verbally but seem to have changed their minds since then.

I did speak to number 18 when we moved in and they were lovely - just told me that they were happy to share the hedge maintenance -they were not clear on ownership but thought everything was on our side.

I am not sure what they are talking about with the great deal of stress bit, I trimmed my side of the back hedge over the weekend as I do every couple of months but this is the same as I have been doing for the last couple of years and I only every trim stuff when they are out as they get aggressive with me apart, from that I haven't spoken to them in over a month.

zhuffzilla15
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:41 am

Re: Advice on finding a surveyor to determine boundary?

Post by zhuffzilla15 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:59 pm

arborlad wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:51 am
zhuffzilla15 wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:41 pm

I have no interest in battling this out and have no idea on the legal complexity of boundary dispute so I just want to determine the boundary and pop a fence up and move on- I have attempted the olive branch a few times but it has just resulted in more shouting.

my plan is to just send them a letter saying i want to arrange for an independent surveyor to determine the boundary and ask if they are ok with the surveyor assessing from their side as well as ours - does anyone have any recommendations on what sort of surveyor I need and how much It is likely to cost?



Only if this escalates way beyond what right thinking individuals would consider reasonable, is it necessary to engage a surveyor.

You already have some uncertainty of where the boundary lies - don't add to that by erecting a fence.

Can we see a photo of the front hedge looking towards the house.

I have asked for your threads to be merged.

I think the issue is my neighbours believe that they own the boundary - but there perception of ownership seems to be that they automatically own anything that touches the boundary line even if it comes a couple of feet into my garden, so I think the "right thinking individuals" bit is the reason I want to make sure I do everything correctly to avoid any nasty repercussions down the line.

& I want to put a fence up because I am tired of abuse from my neighbours - I don't go into my garden when they are out anymore because they will always want to call me over and shout at me.

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