Legalising unregistered land

Post Reply
olisun
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:44 am

Re: Legalising unregistered land

Post by olisun » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:17 pm

arsie wrote:(By the way, most of your what?)
Neighbours and maybe because approx 50% of the properties are rented out and my immediate neighbour to the left has not lived in her property since more than 2 yrs now.
arsie wrote:(By the way, most of your what?)

I am not an expert either but the answer to your assumption needs an expert. Have you thought about solicitor's advice?
I have been recommended a solicitor but she charges £200 + VAT per hour and I want to make sure I collect as much as information before I book an appointment.

olisun
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:44 am

Re: Legalising unregistered land

Post by olisun » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:26 pm

arsie wrote: Blimey he's got a cheek hoping to have access, I wouldn't have guessed it was 27 and 29. Who owns 23 and 25? Are they tenanted? Owner occupiers might be concerned about security too. Landlords wouldn't care. Sounds like this guy has clocked the unregistered land and is having a punt. Did he buy 27 (or 29) recently?
According to the title plan he bought 27 on (13.01.1988) but he himself mentioned that the alleyway is NOT owned by anybody. I think he is trying to show regular usage of the alleyway and claim it is his own.

ukmicky
Posts: 4955
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:13 pm
Number of Posts per Page: 20
Number of topics per page: 20
Location: London

Re: Legalising unregistered land

Post by ukmicky » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:05 pm

For the gym man to use the alley he would need an easement to cross your land. That as you say he does not have so do not worry as he cannot come through your land without your permission. If the gyms are going to be a commercial enterprise the width maybe be to restrictive to be allowed anyway.

It may look like an alley but without any evidence such as an easement or actual historical use it is simply a piece of land that was not incorporated into any land titles or has been mistakenly left off the titles of an adjacent plot or plots. If that is the case it was most likely meant to have become part of your plot.

Im my opinion you need to

2.Start using it, so it becomes apparent that you are treating it as your land. .
3 A big lock
4. Pictures showing adjacent fences along the length of the alley in there current state
5. When you have the required years claim the land. (Limitations act)

Under no circumstance speak to any neighbours about this land or your plans. The fewer people that know about it the better until your claim goes in.

Edited removed caution against 1st registration details as land registry will no longer allow due to LRA 2002
Last edited by ukmicky on Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Any information provided is not legal advice and you are advised to gain a professional opinion

arsie
Posts: 1957
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:13 am
Location: Norfolk

Re: Legalising unregistered land

Post by arsie » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:12 pm

Hi Olisun.

I really would like to see, if possible, a bigger scale plan of the alleyway and how it fits with your land? Can you show (draw round) the whole piece of land that is unregistered and the part you currently use? I am not yet clear about this.

Even though I am trying to help you ought to show the situation to a proper solicitor and get his professional advice on (a) do you have a chance and (b) how to go about applying for adverse possession. He should be able to tell you if it is better to apply for the whole piece of land or not.

Get him to talk through the Land Registry web site information I gave you earlier.

Meanwhile others on here may have some thoughts.

MacadamB53
Posts: 6625
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:13 pm
Number of Posts per Page: 100
Number of topics per page: 50

Re: Legalising unregistered land

Post by MacadamB53 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:27 pm

ukmicky wrote:For the gym man to use the alley he would need an easement to cross your land. That as you say he does not have so do not worry as he cannot come through your land without your permission. If the gyms are going to be a commercial enterprise the width maybe be to restrictive to be allowed anyway.

It may look like an alley but without any evidence such as an easement or actual historical use it is simply a piece of land that was not incorporated into any land titles or has been mistakenly left off the titles of an adjacent plot or plots. If that is the case it was most likely meant to have become part of your plot.

Im my opinion you need to

1.See if the land registry will accept a caution against first registration as you have an interest in it when you will be in the future claiming it under after 12 years of possesion and use.
This does not give you any rights over the land but will mean you will be notified should someone else attempt to gain it or part of it. They may refuse due to the LRA 2002 but its worth a try.
2.Start using it, so it becomes apparent that you are treating it as your land. .
3 A big lock
4. Pictures showing adjacent fences along the length of the alley in there current state
5. When you have the required years claim the land. (Limitations act)

Under no circumstance speak to any neighbours about this land or your plans. The fewer people that know about it the better until your claim goes in.
+1

Till date nobody has used the that alleyway other than me and once by the gardeners when I had my lawn turfed. I use every year in summer it to clear the weeds and cut the branches of the trees which grow over my roof and block my Sky signal.

If you can't get your predecessor on board you've got two years left until you can apply.

As well as all ukmicky has set out I'd also suggest you get advice on how to submit a strong objection to the planning application and how to stretch this out. Keep the neighbour distracted while the clock ticks... ;)

Kind regards, Mac

MacadamB53
Posts: 6625
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:13 pm
Number of Posts per Page: 100
Number of topics per page: 50

Re: Legalising unregistered land

Post by MacadamB53 » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:31 am

Hi Olisun,

Depending on how viable you think it would be, I'd brick up the "entrance" and stick a door in the side of your porch.

Can you confirm, for the benefit of the thread, whether any adjacent properties have been able to gain direct access (did they have a gate they never used) during the last ten years?

Kind regards, Mac

olisun
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:44 am

Re: Legalising unregistered land

Post by olisun » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:53 am

arsie wrote:Hi Olisun.

I really would like to see, if possible, a bigger scale plan of the alleyway and how it fits with your land? Can you show (draw round) the whole piece of land that is unregistered and the part you currently use? I am not yet clear about this.
I will do that later today

olisun
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:44 am

Re: Legalising unregistered land

Post by olisun » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:00 am

MacadamB53 wrote:Depending on how viable you think it would be, I'd brick up the "entrance" and stick a door in the side of your porch.
I am guessing I may have to speak to a solicitor before I do that. But one of our neighbours who is also a builder told us to brick it up when we were chatting about it.
MacadamB53 wrote:Can you confirm, for the benefit of the thread, whether any adjacent properties have been able to gain direct access (did they have a gate they never used) during the last ten years?
None of my neighbours have ever required to gain direct or indirect access during the last 10 yrs and there has been no gate on their properties.

It has always been a "dirty" alleyway overgrown with plants and tree branches for the most part of the year.

MacadamB53
Posts: 6625
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:13 pm
Number of Posts per Page: 100
Number of topics per page: 50

Re: Legalising unregistered land

Post by MacadamB53 » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:03 am

Hi olisun,

I am guessing I may have to speak to a solicitor before I do that

Nope. You've absolutely nothing to worry about from a legal angle.

Get the builder neighbour in for a quote for the wall and side door. :)

Kind regards, Mac

arsie
Posts: 1957
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:13 am
Location: Norfolk

Re: Legalising unregistered land

Post by arsie » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:16 am

+1 on that.

Best to act before Mr Gym Rent Man does anything. None except him will be bothered. It's adverse possession - so possess it 8) Only another two years to hang in there. Your builder is a local resident so isn't likely to want strangers walking in behind the houses to the gym or use the alleyway for any other purposes. He will keep his eyes peeled if anyone tries to.
Last edited by arsie on Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

olisun
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:44 am

Re: Legalising unregistered land

Post by olisun » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:16 am

MacadamB53 wrote:As well as all ukmicky has set out I'd also suggest you get advice on how to submit a strong objection to the planning application and how to stretch this out. Keep the neighbour distracted while the clock ticks... ;)
The council is completely useless and I did already complain and object to the build.

I asked the council why I have never been given any notice about the build to which the officer replied that it was something along the lines of "certificate of lawfulness" and doesn't require the neighbours to be informed.

The orginal plan submitted to the council and the build that is taking place is totally different in terms of layout, windows etc other than size of the build. I took many photographs during the build and passed it to the planning officer who finally got the enforcement involved. I got a letter by post after more than a month that my complaint has been received and it will be fully investigated.

I called up the enforcement dept to follow up and the first thing the officer told me on the phone that "I should not have received such letter" and then he went on saying that the landlord can build a door or a window as long it doesn't change the dimensions of the property. The officer also told me that "small" changes are acceptable.

During the build the landlord tried to build a big window overlooking my garden (it is not there in the plans submitted to the council) and when I saw that I immediately called the planning officer. The planning officer then immediately called up the landlord and told him his build should be according to the designs. The builder immediately reduced the sze of the window.

Today morning I just went out to monitor what was happening and it seems the landlord is planning to convert the window into a door. The build is taking place at a rapid pace and most of the changes to the plan happened during the Christmas time and also happens during the weekends. I am sure the conversion from the window to door will happen today.

http://i42.tinypic.com/mu9w10.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2vb3rpi.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/29uysnk.jpg

olisun
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:44 am

Re: Legalising unregistered land

Post by olisun » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:21 am

MacadamB53 wrote:Get the builder neighbour in for a quote for the wall and side door. :)
Btw do you mean replace the existing front door with a brickwall? :?:

There is a door but there is no lock to it but it does have a latch from the inside.

http://i43.tinypic.com/14lpq9j.jpg

arsie
Posts: 1957
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:13 am
Location: Norfolk

Re: Legalising unregistered land

Post by arsie » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:25 am

olisun you need to act fast.

When the door is in, the builder will have access and the next thing will be outside paths etc and your alleyway. Get your locks up. (He doesn't break any rules changing a window to a door. It is permitted. Once you have permission for or an existing opening you can change it between door and window subject only to building regulations, such as the standard of glass, strength of lintel over, etc)

I'd say you have less than a week to defend your alleyway or he will have forced an access and you will be in a mess.

olisun
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:44 am

Re: Legalising unregistered land

Post by olisun » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:42 am

arsie wrote:olisun you need to act fast.

When the door is in, the builder will have access and the next thing will be outside paths etc and your alleyway. Get your locks up. (He doesn't break any rules changing a window to a door. It is permitted. Once you have permission for or an existing opening you can change it between door and window subject only to building regulations, such as the standard of glass, strength of lintel over, etc)

I'd say you have less than a week to defend your alleyway or he will have forced an access and you will be in a mess.
The builder has already built a door on 27, which is directly opposite my downstairs shower room window (approx 1 mtr away) .

My main question is is he allowed to change the door which is on my property? isn't that illegal because the alleyway doesn't belong to him either.

arsie
Posts: 1957
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:13 am
Location: Norfolk

Re: Legalising unregistered land

Post by arsie » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:48 am

olisun wrote:
arsie wrote:olisun you need to act fast.

When the door is in, the builder will have access and the next thing will be outside paths etc and your alleyway. Get your locks up. (He doesn't break any rules changing a window to a door. It is permitted. Once you have permission for or an existing opening you can change it between door and window subject only to building regulations, such as the standard of glass, strength of lintel over, etc)

I'd say you have less than a week to defend your alleyway or he will have forced an access and you will be in a mess.
The builder has already built a door on 27, which is directly opposite my downstairs shower room window (approx 1 mtr away) .

My main question is is he allowed to change the door which is on my property? isn't that illegal because the alleyway doesn't belong to him either.
No he is not. Your property.

But it won't stop him doing it. Most builders know they can get away with all sorts as they are acting to the clients orders. But if your property (and the land that is unregistered and that you are in possession of) is secured, they would be committing criminal damage to break or remove anything - a police matter. Of course they will leave the busted lock on site and it won't have their fingerprints on it ...

Have you got CCTV yet?

Post Reply