Which court form in boundary dispute?

Mike.M
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:35 pm

Re: Which court form in boundary dispute?

Post by Mike.M » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:25 pm

devonjem wrote:If the case is just about defining a boundary location then the Lands Tribunal might be a quicker and cheaper route. The first step will be to apply to the Land Registry to register the disputed land to you. The neighbour is notified of the application and if he objects then the matter is transferred to the First Tier Tribunal (this body has recently taken over the role of the LR Adjudicator).

I was told that LR will not process any application where there is an unresolved dispute, but that was a couple of years ago - has anything change since?

Many thanks
Mike

devonjem
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:16 pm

Re: Which court form in boundary dispute?

Post by devonjem » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:40 pm

I expect by "process" they meant complete. The LR will not complete the application if there is an objection filed. Assuming your neighbour files an objection, then the matter will be referred by the LR to the Tribunal if the objection is not withdrawn by the neighbour. This is how the matter gets before the Tribunal so that it can be resolved.

Mike.M
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:35 pm

Re: Which court form in boundary dispute?

Post by Mike.M » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:18 pm

devonjem wrote:I expect by "process" they meant complete. The LR will not complete the application if there is an objection filed. Assuming your neighbour files an objection, then the matter will be referred by the LR to the Tribunal if the objection is not withdrawn by the neighbour. This is how the matter gets before the Tribunal so that it can be resolved.
Since I contacted the LR (their reply is 4 posts up on the previous page) I had the full (geosystems) survey done. Although the surveyors could not get the full access to the boundary (neighbors fence in the way) and had to indicate the 'Disputed area' on the plan, they added a written comment that the whole of the disputed area belongs to my property.

The problem is that the same correct boundary line is shown on their (neighbour's) own LR plans and I had no notification of proposed changes. As far as the LR are concerned there is no dispute.


Kind regards
Mike

arsie
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Location: Norfolk

Re: Which court form in boundary dispute?

Post by arsie » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:46 pm

Mike, this site's edit option expires after an hour.

And to answer your question, yes the courts do not like boundary disputes. Apparently until the 2002 Land Act there had only been a few hundred and they hoped to eliminate them but I read there have been >10,000 and there are moves in Parliament to do something. The thing is, the actual monetary value of the land is almost always minute compared with the huge cost of legal support, solicitors time, barristers, fees, etc and they seem to insist you take all possible steps to settle before court, ADR, mediators, the lot. I posted a link to an article about this subject.

The reality is that costs can sink anyone to the point of selling up etc. So it is most important to avoid being seen to be intransigent because costs far outweigh anything else unfortunately :( So even if you lose if you have behaved in a conciliatory manner and the other side has not, they can be left as the financial loser on costs awarded.

arsie
Posts: 1957
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Location: Norfolk

Re: Which court form in boundary dispute?

Post by arsie » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:00 pm

Mike.M wrote:The problem is that the same correct boundary line is shown on their (neighbour's) own LR plans and I had no notification of proposed changes. As far as the LR are concerned there is no dispute.
In that case they should proceed with registering your land claim and boundary?

celestina
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Re: Which court form in boundary dispute?

Post by celestina » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:38 am

devonjem wrote:Form N1 can be used. I recently used this form to commence proceedings involving interference with a right of way. This claim sought an injunction, declaratory relief and damages. In the "Amount Claimed" box we put "TBC" - to be confirmed.
Devonjem, may I ask about this? A similar thing happened to us and I didn't know you could do this. Was an injunction given? Did the defendent defend this? What are the consequences? etc. Thank you.

Mike.M
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:35 pm

Re: Which court form in boundary dispute?

Post by Mike.M » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:34 pm

arsie wrote:
Mike.M wrote:The problem is that the same correct boundary line is shown on their (neighbour's) own LR plans and I had no notification of proposed changes. As far as the LR are concerned there is no dispute.
In that case they should proceed with registering your land claim and boundary?
I will contact LR and try to find out a little more, arsie.


Kind regards
Mike

devonjem
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Re: Which court form in boundary dispute?

Post by devonjem » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:00 pm

Celestina, in the case I mentioned, the defendant did defend all the way to about 1 week before the trial, some 2 years after proceedings were issued. He then wanted to settle so a consent order was drawn up that included a declaration that the easement existed, an injunction restraining interference, and a costs order that he had to pay over £40000. On top of that figure he had his own costs to bear. The judge then approved the consent order.

We all know that legal proceedings can be expensive but these sums really show that unless a party has sufficient insurance then court really needs to be avoided if at all possible, although sometimes it is unavoidable. Using the lands tribunal route should be a bit quicker and less expensive, but if the application is defended then you can still rack up significant costs.

Mike.M
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:35 pm

Re: Which court form in boundary dispute?

Post by Mike.M » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:45 am

Mike.M wrote:
arsie wrote:
Mike.M wrote:The problem is that the same correct boundary line is shown on their (neighbour's) own LR plans and I had no notification of proposed changes. As far as the LR are concerned there is no dispute.
In that case they should proceed with registering your land claim and boundary?
I will contact LR and try to find out a little more, arsie.


Kind regards
Mike
The full reply from LR:

"Dear Mike

Thank you for your email dated 25 February 2014.

There is nothing that we are aware of that prevents an application being made to register land, the application would be treated on its merits and on the documentary title lodged. However, registration may not resolve the issues on the ground, which have been described in your e-mail. In the circumstances described it would be best that independent legal advice is sought.


All land registry plans are based on Ordnance Survey detail and unless the boundary has been determined within the meaning of the Land Registration Act 2002, the boundary of a registered estate is a general boundary only. This means that the exact line of the boundary is undetermined.

It should be noted that the red edged extent on each title plan is no more than indicative of the land in any registered title. Each title plan has been prepared with general boundaries (under s.60 Land Registration Act 2002) and is not intended to show the exact position of any boundaries, only their general position. If more precision is required about the exact position of the boundaries you should refer back to your deeds and documents.

Land Registry provides procedural advice to explain how the land registration system works and how to make applications correctly. There are limits to the advice that we will provide. We will not provide legal advice, and will provide advice only about real cases, not about theoretical circumstances. We will not express a view on questions where the law is complex or unclear except where the question arises on a live registration application. In providing this factual information and procedural advice land registry has to remain impartial as we recognise that others may be affected by what we say so as to avoid any conflict of interest.

I hope this is of assistance to you.

Yours Sincerely


Caroline Mullen
Durham CT1
Land Registry Durham Office | Southfield House | Southfield Way | Durham | DH1 5TR"

Mike.M
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:35 pm

Re: Which court form in boundary dispute?

Post by Mike.M » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:22 pm

nothingtodowithme wrote:
Hello Mike
Thank you for your response I take it as a compliment; you are kind and it feels good to be appreciated as I like to help if I am able.
The reason I have come back to this thread(which I bowed out from; respectively) is because as I attempted to help, the thread was hi-jacked and it became impossible for me at least to be of assistance to you, I just thought you deserve an explanation and wish you all the best.
And the very best wishes to you too :!:

Mike.M
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:35 pm

Re: Which court form in boundary dispute?

Post by Mike.M » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:37 pm

Greetings,

My claim is now in progress and the neighbours are defending.

I'm at present trying to complete a Direction questionnaire (form N181) but have difficulty understanding some of the terminology:

D. 'Case management information'
D4. "Disclosure of non-electronic documents.
What directions are proposed for disclosure?"


J. 'Other information'
"Do you intend to make any applications in future?
If yes, what for?" (applications to do what and at what stage?)


K. 'Directions'
"Whether agreed or not a draft of the order for directions which you seek must accompany this form."


A layman's translation or explanation as to what is required of me would be greatly appreciated.



Kind regards
Mike

frustrated88
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Number of topics per page: 25

Re: Which court form in boundary dispute?

Post by frustrated88 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:31 pm

Hi Mike

We have been reading your posts and cannot believe how similar our story is to yours.
We are so interested in how you progressed after completing the N181 form.

At present, after 4 years of struggling with a neighbour who has fenced and claimed a considerable amount of our property we are trying to complete the N181 form. This is despite various surveys all at our cost and attempting to mediate via solicitor, surveyor and police etc. Like you we are dealing with someone who is a professional at turning on the charm!

We hope that you have been successful and would love to know how you managed with the form and the process after it was submitted.

All help and advice is much appreciated. As you know only too well this is really stressful and so time consuming not to mention costly.

If anyone else reading this post can help then this is also appreciated.

Kind regards

Frustrated88 (anonymous for the time being)

Morgan Sweet
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:47 pm

Re: Which court form in boundary dispute?

Post by Morgan Sweet » Fri May 04, 2018 7:55 pm

I only wish I could help in resolving the ridiculous way that boundary disputes are regarded and treated by all of our authorities. As it is, the person in possession has the advantage, which is totally wrong and encourages those who know, that they can often encroach with impunity. We are supposed to live in a democracy where the law is equally applied to all of us and many (if not all) of us DO care about our land and their boundaries whilst the Courts have little sympathy with us in such disputes. It is to be hoped that the bill relating to such disputes gets passed and helps serve us in a fair and cost effective way to settle such stressful and all too common disputes.

• Property Boundaries (Resolution of Disputes) Bill [HL] 2016-17

arborlad
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Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Which court form in boundary dispute?

Post by arborlad » Sat May 05, 2018 11:50 am

frustrated88 wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:31 pm
Hi Mike

We have been reading your posts and cannot believe how similar our story is to yours.
We are so interested in how you progressed after completing the N181 form.

This is a four year old thread and the OP hasn't visited since..............you might get a response to a PM which are enabled - despite announcements to the contrary.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

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