3 not wise men

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liveinpeace
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3 not wise men

Post by liveinpeace » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:19 pm

sorry if this is long winded
the people who sold the house we now live in to us number 37, put the house up for sale when their mother needed to go in a nursing home.
the daughter was dealing with the sale(she grew up in the house and had lived there with her mum and dad since the 80s)
the family had always got on with all the neighbours and had all been friendly.
the house is semi-detached with a garden,the problem is not with the attached house but the next semi along number 39
39s owner also whent into a nursing home,the house has been left to her 3 sons .
whilst the houses were empty 39s sons moved the back fence over 2 foot on to 37s land and decided to put a gate in the fence so they could use 37s drive for access! this is due to the fact they have no access to the back of 39 as they have built up to the boundary and done extensive work inside what was the garage,and they can no longer get access through that.
we viewed 37 loved it,had our offer accepted and put our house up for sale,we were assured by the estate agent that the seller had grown up with the neighbours and would be able to sort the gate out and have it removed,as there was no right of way or access and there never had been. we were prepared to except the moved boundary in the interest of keeping the peace,but obviously did not want a gate into next door.
round about this time the sons of 39 put a ridculously low offer in for 37,that was not accepted.
our house sold to a cash buyer and we were out within a month.
the sons of 39 refused to negotiate with 37 and insisted they would have to get a solicitor and take them to court and informed them they needed to tell any body interested in the house that 37 had caused a boundary dispute by being so unreasonable.
we were at a loss at what to do,we were living in various friends spare rooms and had paid for all searches and surveys.
we tried to negotiate with the neighbours sons and offered to keep the gate as long as it was locked on our side and we would allow access when needed. they refused and said it had to go to court.
we thought sod that,bought the house moved in and blocked the gate(that wall is ours on the deeds)
this is where PUT THE TAPE MEASURE AWAY COMES IN
we have now had many letters from 39s solicitors,their reasoning for this behaviour is that,they have got their tape measure out and scaled from their plans,decided that the 2ft at the back is theirs,they now also want half our drive aswell as they say the front is wrong also. elderly neighbours have told us that our drive, and the back before it was moved(by the sons a 2 years ago) has been as it is now since 1965,they have lots of pictures too.
the sons cannot belive how unreasonable we are being,have threatened us with court,the police and going to hell.
they are rather wealthy individuals,i am a baker and my husband a plasterer.
help

mr sheen
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Re: 3 not wise men

Post by mr sheen » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:39 pm

They have deep pockets ...and you don't.
They can keep this going ad infinitum with no adverse effect on them...whereas you are sofa-surfing and watching the pennies. Ever heard of...don't take on a battle you can't win?
They are not going to move the fence back and you will find it difficult to enforce...even if you did have the cash to pursue it.

arborlad
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Re: 3 not wise men

Post by arborlad » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:01 pm

liveinpeace wrote:................. we were prepared to except the moved boundary in the interest of keeping the peace,but obviously did not want a gate into next door.


You were right to accept the moved boundary, you did purchase with it in that location but the false claims of the ROW over your land will devalue your property considerably and needs to be vigorously contested.

Do you have any legal help with your household insurance?
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

liveinpeace
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Re: 3 not wise men

Post by liveinpeace » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:37 am

In response to mr sheens comment
I don't think " living in various friends spare rooms" sleeping in a comfy bed, when your house has sold and you have an empty house you want to buy waiting for you,and the money to buy it. Really constitute the term,sofa surfing. we did not want to commit to renting as we did not know what was going to happen.

we do not want to move the back fence,we accept that is where it was when we bought it

just because we do manual jobs does not mean we are penny pinching,we are just not wealthy.

the problem is that they are now bringing a new case against us because they want to take half our front drive to use to get access to their back garden.

we see a house as a home and not an investment,we are not really bothered if it is devalued by the boundary disputes they are insisting on.

we got it at a bargain price due to the other interested parties pulling out,due to the boundary dispute.

I was just hoping that the good people of the Gardenlaw forum, would give me some constructive advice, as I have read many sound and interesting views from previous posts.

jonahinoz
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Re: 3 not wise men

Post by jonahinoz » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:48 pm

Hi Liveinpeace,

You asked for advice, and you got it ...specifically ... you have a fight on your hands ... possibly on a hiding to nothing.

This is going to cost you money. This is going to cost The Three Bruvs money. They will be poorer, you might be bankrupt ... even if you win. You should win, but courts do not always make sensible decisions.

You bought what you saw ... and what you saw was a dispute. The courts may punish you for making what they regard as silly decision. What advice can we offer, other that to speak to a solicitor, who will be happy to accept your instructions, and take your money. Your cheapest option may be to cut your losses, ask an estate agent to value your property minus the area in dispute ... which will give you a bottom line. Armed with that figure, you could ask your solicitors to approach the Bruvvers, pointing out that a dispute is going to cost them money, and they might be better off coming to a cash settlement to resolve the dispute, or even buy your house totally.

If you have a lender, they will have an interest in this matter, and might be willing to help.

Win or lose, you will not want to live next door to the Bruvvers. Start looking for ways out. If nothing else, your house owns the drive, on paper (or by adverse possession) or it has a prescriptive easement over the drive, the Bruvvers can't have it both ways.

Of course, if the Bruvvers squander their inheritance, it may not be long before they won't be able to afford a fight, start arguing amongst themselves, and want to sell ... and will not want a dispute. Some burly builder friends might be useful.

John W.

liveinpeace
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Re: 3 not wise men

Post by liveinpeace » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:53 am

John,your not one of the brothers are you?
thanks anyway for your reply,you sound like you have been through a boundary dispute yourself.

we will not be moving,or cutting our losses,the land taken at the back is most definitely ours on our plans and on theirs,the bit at the front is at best inches.
we know we will have a fight and we have open eyes and we are aware Judges dont always make the right rulings.

The funny thing is me and my chap were brought(dragged) up on one of the roughest estates the north of England has to offer,it made benefit street look like the Cotswalds, and my family would embarrass Rab c nesbitt. so it will not be a problem living next door to 3 angry pen pushers, after what we have experienced.

we don't know which is the bigger miracle, us ending up with the post code we now have or the fact we both have a full set of teeth.

In reply to Arborlad
we do not have a lender
I dont think house insurance would help as we bought the house with a boundary dispute.
there is no ROW or access on any plans,there was no need as they could access their own back until their internal building work blocked access through garage.we have blocked any access through ours,we have instructed a solicitor and he says there will never be any form of access.
thank you very much for your interest

despair
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Re: 3 not wise men

Post by despair » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:06 am

Remember

These 3 are bullies and bullies will threaten all sorts but virtually never follow through
They hope you will capitulate

They will refuse mediation which is a prerequisite before any court case so that will go against them

Make sure the access you have bocked is solid ...take photos with witnesses
Involve the police because these 3 are trying to breach the peace and if they try to access or demolish your lawful barrier or threaten you its a police matter

As it is they are guilty of harassment so keep every shred of evidence ..,record every word they throw at you very carefully in a diary and above all never utter a word of response ..totally blank them out no matter what ...you must always be whiter than white
Set up CCTV its invaluable to prove any funny goings on and is evidence and may be all thats needed to nip this in the bud
Bullies once they know their actions etc are recorded tend to back off

I know exactly how gut wrenching all this is for you but you have to harden yourself against their crap

If their Mother owned the house and is still in a nursing home they cannot have inherited the house and the local council will want to use the house to pay her bills ...these 3 may run out of money fast given todays nursing home bills ...they msy even have tried to hood wink the council over ownership ....put your ears to the ground and learn all you can about them inc where they lived before

liveinpeace
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Re: 3 not wise men

Post by liveinpeace » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:40 am

thank you very much for your response despair.
they refuses to mediate with the lady who owned the property before us,insisting she had to go to court,and we got the same response when we tried to mediate,this was all logged and shared at the time,with the solicitors who were dealing with the sale.all letters and emails have been saved.
they thought they would force the lady selling the house, into selling it to them for next to nothing,though she was backed into a corner by them before we decided to go ahead with the sale. she said she would gift it to the donkey sanctuary before selling it to them.
she pops round for a brew and a cake and a chat once a month.

i will never be able to understand the reasoning of popping a gate in a fence and deciding you can use next doors drive,that is the bit that i cannot see from their point of view.or understand why you think you could get away with it.

I have read many posts about boundaries but i think, that ours is probably the most bonkers one.
their mother is still in a nursing home,so very good point.
thats the kind of advice i was hoping for
cheers

despair
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Re: 3 not wise men

Post by despair » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:22 pm

If the mother is still in a nursing home you need to get someone to tip off social services ...its highly likely the 3 sons are lying and SS have not yet caught up with them ...deprivation of assetts vomes to mind too

Glad your still in contact with previous owner of your house as she is valuable witness plus the fact they refuse to mediate with her or you puts them in a very very bad light with the court

Bullies will never mediate because in their warped minds they are right but sane folk know they are totalky wrong

Be very very sure that gate is screwed tight shut that your drive /access is well barricaded and you invest in CCTV

liveinpeace
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Re: 3 not wise men

Post by liveinpeace » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:21 pm

thanks very much again for your kind response despair,have you been through a boundary dispute yourself,your name hints that you might have.
we have been considering CCTV,but the gate is now blocked off with a shed.

I am sure there are a few people reading this who have or are, at the moment going through a dispute. And though in my life so far I have had some seriously sad events happen to me, and I am aware of what really matters in life, a boundary dispute can be very consuming.
It really does make you question human behaviour, you can even wonder if you are in the wrong because you cannot understad someone else's mad reasoning.

though it is them who moved a fence from where it had been for over 55 years, and took an old ladies land,within months of her going into a nursing home, without any conversation with the family,who they had known for 30 years. And then put a gate in it(right at the back so they wandered down the drive and through the garden to access the back of their house) where no access had ever been. they honestly believed that the family where being completely unreasonable by questioning what the hell they where doing.
the fact they are now trying to move the front boundary(from where it has been since the 50s) to get access there, and bringing a new case against us,it just seems they are hell bent on a boundary dispute and are seriously not used to not getting their own way.

we have received some seriously crazy infuriating letters from them,here are a few of my favourite quotes,
"though so far we have been more than tolerant in allowing you to block our access"
"we have as yet allowed you to continue parking your car on our land"
"we accept that you are unreasonable, unneighbourly people"
"it is you that have acted immorally,your inflexibility has caused the dispute"

we have not said one word back

Eliza
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Re: 3 not wise men

Post by Eliza » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:35 pm

I'm interpreting those quotes as they have got steam coming out of their ears and are trying hard to provoke a response from you. If they succeeded in getting responses from you in writing telling them just where to get off, they would probably just use that against you (whilst carefully not mentioning what they said to you first). If they were that confident of their ground, then they wouldnt be trying to provoke you. Stay calm and yes I do know how hard it is when the neighbours are trying their darndest to get a rise out of you.
Apologies for not giving exact personal details in my posts - you never know who is reading....

despair
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Re: 3 not wise men

Post by despair » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:05 pm

Bullies will say all kinds of utter rubbish and make all kinds of threats ...whatever you do

Do not respond on any account

Just steadfastly ignore them
Block their access by any means possible
Gather every ounce of evidence inc areial photos from local library or history society

Get someone from a distance to report all 3 of them to HMRC , social services , DWP as evading tax , national insurance , claiming benefits , running a business , decirving social services

Just ensure they are tied up in knots with the authorities and kept busy but that its not traced back as you reporting them

Make sure your local communuty support police officer is aware they vould cause a breach of the peace

liveinpeace
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Re: 3 not wise men

Post by liveinpeace » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:50 am

thanks Eliza, there is something very passive aggressive about the letters. they also usually wait till my rather large chap is out before trying to have a go at me,once whilst shouting at me to be neighbourly and act like a grown up!(which isn't very neighbourly) I drove off,without saying a word, only to see one of them in my rear view mirror kicking the wheelie bin repeatedly,so yep they are mad, It has taken every ounce of control in me not to respond.

thanks despair,i have had an informal chat with my friends husband who is a policeman,he said though they are not interested in the civil matter of the dispute,he has advised me to log any confrontation and have my phone ready to record if i ever feel threatened.
though i am a red head who has lost her temper probably a handful of times in my life, If I do lose it you may here about it on the BBC news

despair
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Re: 3 not wise men

Post by despair » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:46 pm

Oh yes i know the scenario very well ...they will always try to intimidate anyone they see as weak or will not fight back

And its gut wrenching because they will also try to stalk you in the garden the other side of a fence etc

Just think of them as per the line in the song from Les Miserables. "See them with their trousers off they are never quite so grand "
always conjures up a picture of just how pathetic they are

keep up the sending them to Coventry , no eye contact , nothing ..just blank them out and their stupid games will eventually be played on someone else

if you even reply to solicitors letters tell them that since you have full legal title to land they have stolen and are attempting to steal
all future communications will be seen as harassment and since they have refused to mediate they are in breach of court rules so they will be considered Vexatious litigants .

arborlad
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Re: 3 not wise men

Post by arborlad » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:25 pm

liveinpeace wrote: 39s owner also whent into a nursing home,the house has been left to her 3 sons .


You need to verify this if you can, depending on the circumstances, it may be worth letting the 3 sons solicitor know that all future correspondence will be addressed to the owner of the property - their Mother.

What separates your front garden from your neighbours, likewise your front garden from your rear garden?

If the rear fence is a panel one with slotted posts, be aware that they could lift a panel and still gain access.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

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