Holiday Cottage trying to create a road/parking in garden

SwitchRich
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Holiday Cottage trying to create a road/parking in garden

Post by SwitchRich » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:56 pm

Dear Garden Law
Hoping you might be able to give me clarity on a current situation we have among a group of holiday cottages in Cornwall of which we own one of the total group of 7

Each of the cottages have their own boundaries which include a little garden (this is important later)
All 7 cottages are set within a wider territory of a shared grounds which includes a car park, grass field for recreation and a small pond.
We have setup a company in which each owner is a member and we each pay into so that we can organise things like public liability insurance and maintenance of grounds etc.

The issue we have is that one cottage has taken down the fence bordering part of their garden and put in a gate and wants to put a small road/track over her garden to the back of the cottage. She has been developing her cottage with the view (we suspect) to turn it into two separate dwellings. This would otherwise be impossible as there is no extra space in the carpark.

I have attached a photo that shows the shared car park in yellow and the road we suspect she is wanting in red. I have also attached other photos which show the grounds.

The other cottage owners are against this happening and wondered if there is anything we can do here? We believe that she would need to apply for planning permission to have a small track / road put in so that cars could park in what is officially her garden.
In the 13+ years she has owned it she has kept a grotty caravan on her garden too. We have always objected to this too in our annual meeting notes we keep (we meet as a group once a year to go over the finances and agree on any projects we would like to do)
But she claims to have permission to keep in there from her initial purchase of the cottage from the developer who split the land initially. (it was all one complex originally)

Have included her deeds too and anonymised any identifying details.


Sorry If I have gone on too long here but wanted to try and get all the relevant facts in one initial post. Would love to hear your thoughts on how we might proceed to stop this track being formed and have her park cars or worse a bunch of caravans in her garden area.

Cheers


Rich
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SwitchRich
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Re: Holiday Cottage trying to create a road/parking in garde

Post by SwitchRich » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:03 pm

Here are the deeds too with all the personal details of owner blanked out
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MacadamB53
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Re: Holiday Cottage trying to create a road/parking in garde

Post by MacadamB53 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:04 pm

Hi SwitchRich,

a driveway made of porous materials could be laid in that garden without the need to apply for planning permission because it has already been given pp under Part 1, Class F of The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 1995:

F. Permitted development
The provision within the curtilage of a dwellinghouse of a hard surface for any purpose incidental to the enjoyment of the dwellinghouse as such.


can’t see any means, other than persuasion or coersion, to stop her if that’s what she wants to do.

kind regards, Mac

mr sheen
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Re: Holiday Cottage trying to create a road/parking in garde

Post by mr sheen » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:48 pm

The parameters of a management company should be clear you need to check what responsibilities, duties and controls the MgT company has since it is unlikely you will have any control over privately owned properties since you didn't own all the land and sell it off with covenants. You may have specified responsibilities but there will be limits. This is not all communal land and the privately owned parts are exactly that.

Check the parameters of the Mgt company and check deeds for any covenants on the properties to see if you have any hold over private parts of the property.

Managed to see the photos now and I don't think you are likely to be able to do anything. The outline in red won't affect anyone so it would be pointless pursuing the matter since there would be no losses since no advers effects on other properties.
Can fully understand what they are doing and....
Tbh I would probably do the same

SJC14
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Re: Holiday Cottage trying to create a road/parking in garde

Post by SJC14 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:18 pm

So let's assume she gets planning permission to split the existing property in 2 and puts in a road in the red area. The problem they have is there is no ROW to or from the new road to the communal car park, so effectively it would be landlocked and useless. Splitting the house would not also give the new property any existing access to the car park either. So the other owners can block development by refusing access and to grant access for any new road/drive. The Local Authority would also have comment about the removal of a parking space or two to allow access.

span
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Re: Holiday Cottage trying to create a road/parking in garde

Post by span » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:29 pm

SJC14 wrote:So let's assume she gets planning permission to split the existing property in 2 and puts in a road in the red area. The problem they have is there is no ROW to or from the new road to the communal car park, so effectively it would be landlocked and useless. Splitting the house would not also give the new property any existing access to the car park either. So the other owners can block development by refusing access and to grant access for any new road/drive. The Local Authority would also have comment about the removal of a parking space or two to allow access.

You sure?

MacadamB53
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Re: Holiday Cottage trying to create a road/parking in garde

Post by MacadamB53 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:37 pm

Hi SJC14,

there is no ROW to or from the new road to the communal car park
the property in question has a right to bring vehicles onto the car park area and it would be futile arguing that this was limited to bringing them on only if they’re going to be left there for an unspecified but significant enough length of time rather than Immediately being driven off.

Splitting the house would not also give the new property any existing access to the car park
yes it would because that is how the law has it.

The Local Authority would also have comment about the removal of a parking space or two to allow access.
I don’t follow your logic - the LA have no say in the matter

kind regards, Mac

SJC14
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Re: Holiday Cottage trying to create a road/parking in garde

Post by SJC14 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:05 pm

Hi Mac,

1. The property in question has a right to bring vehicles onto the car park area as is. That right does not extend to adding an additional access from the car park and there is an issue of closing off a parking space or two (material loss to all other owners by reducing potential parking spaces). The 7 properties each owner has a title to a fraction of the undivided property as a whole of the communal car park and private road/drive. I cannot see how the developing owner can gain right of way to create a new entrance and road and close off a parking space without the approval of all owners.

2. Access rights are not automatic as the right of access is communally and privately owned. What sort of access do you think is automatic - pedestrian or vehicular? I say neither are onto such private roads.

3. As part of the planning process the LA would assess the loss of car parking spaces. I assume that the currently fenced area at the red 'road' area is at least 1 parking spot. The loss of parking would be taken into account against the application and the developer possibly and likely made to add a car parking or more space inside the current garden to offset this loss.

MacadamB53
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Re: Holiday Cottage trying to create a road/parking in garde

Post by MacadamB53 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:41 pm

Hi SJC14,

The 7 properties each owner has a title to a fraction of the undivided property as a whole of the communal car park and private road/drive.

there are 8 properties - 7 cottages each owned by an individual and 1 communal area owned by a company.

there is an issue of closing off a parking space or two

good point - although not something that means a driveway can’t be laid - she can either proceed as planned and deal with any attempts to block access if they arise or else negotiate a compromise with the company.

kind regards, Mac

Collaborate
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Re: Holiday Cottage trying to create a road/parking in garde

Post by Collaborate » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:43 am

I think you need to post the precise wordings of the rights the owner has re the parking area.

Assuming there is a right to park, that does not necessarily mean that there is a right to use an entrance - the other owners would not lose their right to park in that part of the car park, so presumably could block the entrance, and the company could maintain a boundary fence around the car park edge.

The company needs to take some legal advice.

SJC14
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Re: Holiday Cottage trying to create a road/parking in garde

Post by SJC14 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:01 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:1 communal area owned by a company.
Even better, not sure what the english term is, the 'developer' cannot use a private road/car park without an appropriate servitude right of way. This right would be vehicular and pedestrian, right to park, and servitudes for service media, drains, pipes and other purposes. Yes she could put in a drive way but what right would she have to drive from that to the car park?

SwitchRich
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Re: Holiday Cottage trying to create a road/parking in garde

Post by SwitchRich » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:57 pm

Hi All,

Thanks very much for your posts and helps so far. @Mac thanks for the reference RE permitted development for a hard surface. Did not think of that as we presumed she would need planning permission there.
I had thought we as a management company could be difficult and fence off the area just in front of the gate thus blocking it. But think that is a last ditch "nuclear option" which we may or may not take.

The loss of a parking space is one of our main worries. The lady claims that her parking space is directly in front of the gate and thus all the other cottages will be fine as they still have space for their car. I've not seen any documentation to state where each parking spot is for each property so will check into that.
Will also check the parameters of what the management company actually controls as there may be something there.

I think all of the owners may need to get together to discuss the options and perhaps get some legal advice to support out decision.
But thanks again to all who have chipped in so far. Some really valuable learnings here and if you think of anything more do please post.


Cheers! :)

Rich

MacadamB53
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Re: Holiday Cottage trying to create a road/parking in garde

Post by MacadamB53 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:54 pm

Hi SwitchRich,

I had thought we as a management company could be difficult and fence off the area just in front of the gate thus blocking it.

only trouble is the fence would stand on land designated as car park and so, technically, you would be reducing the space available without good reason (and maybe without a lawful right).

kind regards, Mac

Collaborate
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Re: Holiday Cottage trying to create a road/parking in garde

Post by Collaborate » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:28 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi SwitchRich,

I had thought we as a management company could be difficult and fence off the area just in front of the gate thus blocking it.

only trouble is the fence would stand on land designated as car park and so, technically, you would be reducing the space available without good reason (and maybe without a lawful right).

kind regards, Mac
I really wouldn't think that would be actionable at all.

SwitchRich
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Re: Holiday Cottage trying to create a road/parking in garde

Post by SwitchRich » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:13 am

Hey Collaborate,
What specifically do you think is not actionable?

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