Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

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arborlad
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by arborlad » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:37 pm

arborlad wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:13 am
annie08 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:20 pm
I have a tenanted property which I have visited today as a tree in one corner at the back of the garden had come down in the recent high winds. The tree and other foliage had concealed the fact that when the property owner backing onto my property had replaced the fence last year he has encroached by at least a metre into my garden. The Land Registry title document shows the boundaries as running in a straight line between all the properties in the street but I can see there is a dog leg behind where the tree was and one in the other corner. ==****************== Symbols show the encroachment from their side. Please can someone advise me how best to tackle this issue?



First - speak to the neighbour, it's the surest way of finding out if you've got a belligerent land-grabbing neighbour or if there is some other explanation.

However the conversation goes, have someone on standby who is able to remove the fence from your land and stacked on the neighbours land.


................................just to add, don't mention the tenant or his health, it's not relevant and could easily lead to being sidetracked, just concentrate on your property, your land.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

Morgan Sweet
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by Morgan Sweet » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:10 am

The above (from aborlad) is good advice, stick to the point ie encroachment that has to be remedied.

Depending on personalities, I do not think it is always best to speak to an encroacher, it can inflame the situation and people can take entrenched stances that, on reflection after receiving a polite (but firm) letter, they may have considered and adopted a more reasonable approach.


I would advise gathering all evidence, LR plans, photographs etc and writing to the encroacher asking him to move the fence to the correct position and/or offering to meet to agree the boundary position; send letter by recorded delivery. You should give him the opportunity to move his encroaching fence (at his expense) within a stated time period before taking any action yourself. If the problem were ever to go to court it is vital that you are seen to have behaved correctly and reasonably.

Get the letter posted ASAP.

annie08
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by annie08 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:31 pm

Thank you everyone. I am just waiting for the solicitor to unearth the title deeds. There is a tiny stream - mostly a dribble - that is right on the boundary. I think he may have wanted a neat and tidy appearance on his side next to the fence and has possibly encroached onto my land in order to sink a section of drainpipe the width of his garden and cover it with gravel. On peering over I can't see the stream at all. Will report back with his response once I've been in contact with him.

arborlad
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by arborlad » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:59 pm

What type of fence was there originally, who owned it, what is there now?
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

annie08
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by annie08 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:18 pm

Close board panels. He has replaced like for like. The posts were and are on my side so I assumed the fence was my responsibility but the deeds may tell me more.

arborlad
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by arborlad » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:28 am

annie08 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:18 pm
Close board panels. He has replaced like for like. The posts were and are on my side so I assumed the fence was my responsibility but the deeds may tell me more.


Can you clarify whether this is a fence constructed with posts and rails on-site or pre-made panels?

The presence of the stream, no matter how small, may go some way towards explaining the placement of the fence - how have others dealt with it?
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

annie08
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by annie08 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:19 pm

Constructed on site with posts and rails. It's mostly just a dribble rather than an obvious stream. None of the other neighbour's have moved their fences from the original boundary position as far I know. I haven't done anything yet. Still waiting for sight of the deeds.

jonahinoz
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by jonahinoz » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:19 am

However the conversation goes, have someone on standby who is able to remove the fence from your land and stacked on the neighbours land.

Hi,

My understanding is that if something is attached to my land ... it becomes my property. No doubt there is a Latin phrase to cover that?

If that is correct, Stack the fence on your land, offer to gift it to the neighbour, to be collected at a time convenient to you.

But take some photographs first, if possible from the same place as previous photos were taken.

John W.

Collaborate
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by Collaborate » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:13 am

jonahinoz wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:19 am
However the conversation goes, have someone on standby who is able to remove the fence from your land and stacked on the neighbours land.

Hi,

My understanding is that if something is attached to my land ... it becomes my property. No doubt there is a Latin phrase to cover that?

If that is correct, Stack the fence on your land, offer to gift it to the neighbour, to be collected at a time convenient to you.

But take some photographs first, if possible from the same place as previous photos were taken.

John W.
Perennial argument on GL - If the person planting the fence is doing so in order to expand the boundary of their own garden that does not thereby gift the fence to the neighbour. The rule oft quoted (out of place) means that when you sell land you are also selling whatever stands on that land.

Setting stopwatch for comment by Arborlad.

Morgan Sweet
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by Morgan Sweet » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:44 am

Collaborate wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:13 am
jonahinoz wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:19 am
However the conversation goes, have someone on standby who is able to remove the fence from your land and stacked on the neighbours land.

Hi,

My understanding is that if something is attached to my land ... it becomes my property. No doubt there is a Latin phrase to cover that?

If that is correct, Stack the fence on your land, offer to gift it to the neighbour, to be collected at a time convenient to you.

But take some photographs first, if possible from the same place as previous photos were taken.

John W.
Perennial argument on GL - If the person planting the fence is doing so in order to expand the boundary of their own garden that does not thereby gift the fence to the neighbour. The rule oft quoted (out of place) means that when you sell land you are also selling whatever stands on that land.

Setting stopwatch for comment by Arborlad.
You are correct the presumption from the Latin phrase only applies when you sell the land to another (and in tenancy situations), not when someone wrongly erects a fence on your land. The fence remains the property of the person who bought it. It is for the owner of the fence to remove and re-site it in the correct position or only if agreed, leave the original fence for the landowner (or more correctly the estate owner) to do so as they wish and erect a new fence in the correct position.

arborlad
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by arborlad » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:01 pm

annie08 wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:19 pm
Constructed on site with posts and rails. It's mostly just a dribble rather than an obvious stream. None of the other neighbour's have moved their fences from the original boundary position as far I know. I haven't done anything yet. Still waiting for sight of the deeds.



That increase your assumption that the original fence in its original location was correct and in your ownership.

Until you make contact with your neighbour, nothing is going to move forward.

Any chance of an anonymised title plan or photo?
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

arborlad
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by arborlad » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:47 am

Morgan Sweet wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:44 am
It is for the owner of the fence to remove and re-site it in the correct position..............



The time to take action on any trespass is as soon as you become aware of it - delay is not your friend in these circumstances.

If it transpires that there is an entirely innocent explanation for the placement of the fence in its current location, then you may get your wish.

The owner of the land must be prepared to remove the trespass to regain her land.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

jonahinoz
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by jonahinoz » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:01 am

Hi,

There is something in my memory banks about claiming tenanted property. The logic being that the property owner cannot be expected to know everything about what is happening to property that he is not occupying. I cannot remember if it refers to claiming a RoW/Easement, or Adverse Possession, or both ???

John W

Morgan Sweet
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by Morgan Sweet » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:42 am

arborlad wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:47 am
Morgan Sweet wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:44 am
It is for the owner of the fence to remove and re-site it in the correct position..............



The time to take action on any trespass is as soon as you become aware of it - delay is not your friend in these circumstances.

If it transpires that there is an entirely innocent explanation for the placement of the fence in its current location, then you may get your wish.

The owner of the land must be prepared to remove the trespass to regain her land.
I agree with the sentiment of your advice, but I have advised that the OP first requests ASAP (in writing) that the owner of the encroaching fence removes it from the OP's property. This is the correct way to proceed, removing a trespassing fence and possibly damaging it can cause an unwanted complication and aggravate the situation. I will be very surprised if the Solicitor advises that the OP just goes ahead and removes the encroaching fence with no recorded request and evidence sent to the encroacher. I hope that the OP will keep us informed of the progress.

arborlad
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Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by arborlad » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:22 am

Morgan Sweet wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:42 am
arborlad wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:47 am
Morgan Sweet wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:44 am
It is for the owner of the fence to remove and re-site it in the correct position..............



The time to take action on any trespass is as soon as you become aware of it - delay is not your friend in these circumstances.

If it transpires that there is an entirely innocent explanation for the placement of the fence in its current location, then you may get your wish.

The owner of the land must be prepared to remove the trespass to regain her land.
I agree with the sentiment of your advice, but I have advised that the OP first requests ASAP (in writing) that the owner of the encroaching fence removes it from the OP's property. This is the correct way to proceed, removing a trespassing fence and possibly damaging it can cause an unwanted complication and aggravate the situation. I will be very surprised if the Solicitor advises that the OP just goes ahead and removes the encroaching fence with no recorded request and evidence sent to the encroacher. I hope that the OP will keep us informed of the progress.



There is a stark contrast between your advice on an encroaching fence and an encroaching hedge - talk of courts and solicitors is vastly premature at this stage.

The letter - of itself, can cause aggravation and complications and there's no way of knowing that it isn't going straight into the bin, the contents also has to be very carefully considered if they're not to cause further problems.

For the OP: even if you are able to remove the fence yourself, it is probably advisable for a fencer to do it - that same fencer can also go and talk to your neighbour if you're wary of doing this yourself.

As well as the contentious fence and boundary you also have the side fences for evidence, rarely will these line either side of that boundary.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

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