Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

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arborlad
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by arborlad » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:40 am

annie08 wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:35 pm
I don't want any problems arising when I decide to sell the property.


If your property were on the market today, the location of the fence would either delay, or more likely, prevent a sale.

If a prospective purchaser came to the forum asking for advice, it would be: 'Get the vendor to sort it before you proceed'.

To 'sort it', needs no reference to any paperwork or fancy gizmos, all it needs is a fencer with a knowledge of how things should be - which they're certainly not at the moment!!
arborlad

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arborlad
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by arborlad » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 am

Morgan Sweet wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:26 pm

Aborlad stated, the Title Plan is only intended to show you which property you bought, not where on that property the boundary lies.

This is absolute nonsense; the Title Plan is a legal document that will be consulted together with other forms of information to show the general boundary and is based on a scaled OS map. Modern Surveying equipment can plot such boundaries with high accuracy based on the Title Plan.


I am 100% certain I am correct on this matter - the exception would be if this boundary had previously been 'determined', which it hasn't!




Morgan Sweet wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:26 pm
May I suggest that you could gift the land in question by transferring it to anyone prepared to accept it,


This, or similar, was a device suggested by a knowledgeable member to deal with your own specific problem - it has no bearing on this one!
arborlad

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arborlad
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by arborlad » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:01 am

Morgan Sweet wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:51 pm

These sorts of situations are very rarely settled by a chat over the fence ..............



My experience is the complete opposite of that, a chat over the fence has always been sufficient to deal with any issues and prevent them from escalating.................and certainly long before any protracted paper-trail is started!
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annie08
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by annie08 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:06 pm

Arborlad - the trouble is we've had two chats and he is entrenched in his view he is right. Nothing I have or could say will persuade him he is wrong. Initially I had been considering taking the fence down if he wasn't going to relocate it but he has built the low wall right on the boundary which complicates matters. I'm sorry but, grateful as I am for all contributions to my thread, I can't accept your one size fits all advice that all I need is a fencer.

MacadamB53
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by MacadamB53 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:50 pm

annie08 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:06 pm
Arborlad - the trouble is we've had two chats and he is entrenched in his view he is right. Nothing I have or could say will persuade him he is wrong. Initially I had been considering taking the fence down if he wasn't going to relocate it but he has built the low wall right on the boundary which complicates matters. I'm sorry but, grateful as I am for all contributions to my thread, I can't accept your one size fits all advice that all I need is a fencer.
is the fence attached to the wall?

arborlad
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by arborlad » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:57 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:50 pm
annie08 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:06 pm
Arborlad - the trouble is we've had two chats and he is entrenched in his view he is right. Nothing I have or could say will persuade him he is wrong. Initially I had been considering taking the fence down if he wasn't going to relocate it but he has built the low wall right on the boundary which complicates matters. I'm sorry but, grateful as I am for all contributions to my thread, I can't accept your one size fits all advice that all I need is a fencer.
is the fence attached to the wall?



Probably not but it is of little consequence, it will just add some time to the job - not the complication that is imagined.
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despair
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by despair » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:30 pm

Arborlad certainly has never come up against intransigent stubborn neighbours because the quietest politest chats over the fence or down the pub or even involving mediators will not shift stubborn bullies

annie08
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by annie08 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:53 pm

The wall is built immediately in front of the fence Mac. The level of his garden is lower than mine, it used to be only slightly lower at that point but appears lower than before. The top of the wall is aligned with the base of the wooden bottom fence support which runs horizontally.

Arborlad - It does complicate the situation as I could not simply have the fence carefully removed and laid on his land. Damage to the bricks and paving stones would be inevitable if we removed them too leaving quite a mess. If I've understood correctly, removal of someone else's property from my land needs to be done carefully causing minimal damage but I imagine we would need to use a sledgehammer.

liveinpeace
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by liveinpeace » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:36 am

hi annie sorry this is still going on and you were not able to find resolution through talking.

I must admit arborlad you have been very lucky to come across such reasonable people in your experience of boundary disputes,

my husband tried to talk to our neighbours originally, with all evidence that the previous owners son gave us and the fact he was willing to be a witness to the fact our fence was moved and there had never been a gate or access previously. the neighbours told my husband he was completely wrong,their contractor (not fencer this time)!! had measured the land and moved it to the right place. no amount or evidence would persuade him otherwise.Even the estate agent picture from the 80s.

so I do understand Annie when someone is so stubborn and self righteous that no other opinion or any amount of evidence will sway them.
I just know from my experience that people like our neighbours are often bullys who are just having a go, and hope you wont have the nads to stand up to them.

if i had my time again I would have not bothered getting a solicitor moved the fence and boarded the gate up. I would have then spent the £3000 it has cost me to defend any legal action from my neighbour for damage to the fence etc, it also would have meant they had to prove that the fence was in the wrong place,which i am sure they couldn't have done, I reckon it wouldn't have cost me anything as they would have just slithered off in to their pit (not that I am bitter ha ha) the law is an ass it does not tend to help wronged people unless they spend a lot of money to try and wright the wrong. once you have the land back the power is all yours and I am pretty sure they would think,oh well we had a go, they seem like busy people who work away so they would not obsess like a neighbour who is home all the time.

Morgan Sweet
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by Morgan Sweet » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:13 pm

arborlad wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 am
Morgan Sweet wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:26 pm

Aborlad stated, the Title Plan is only intended to show you which property you bought, not where on that property the boundary lies.

This is absolute nonsense; the Title Plan is a legal document that will be consulted together with other forms of information to show the general boundary and is based on a scaled OS map. Modern Surveying equipment can plot such boundaries with high accuracy based on the Title Plan.


I am 100% certain I am correct on this matter - the exception would be if this boundary had previously been 'determined', which it hasn't!




Morgan Sweet wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:26 pm
May I suggest that you could gift the land in question by transferring it to anyone prepared to accept it,


This, or similar, was a device suggested by a knowledgeable member to deal with your own specific problem - it has no bearing on this one!
Regarding your 100% certainty regarding Title Plans; you obviously then have absolutely no legal experience regarding boundary disputes.

On your second presumption; yes pilman suggested this to me and it was verified as possible by an experienced Chartered Land Surveyor; however a Solicitor (who also agreed it possible) did express some pitfalls in my specific situation. Why has it no bearing on this one? You seem to have a view that encroaching on agricultural land by a Developer (who had legal support and his own Chartered Surveyor) is different to encroachment on domestic garden land. I can assure you in law encroachment is encroachment whatever type of land is involved.

The advice I had from experienced Solicitors in cases of encroachment was to provide the encroacher with the facts with both TITLE PLANS and the important thing to accomplish was to get the stubborn encroacher to also seek legal advice on their situation from their own Solicitor. If the case is a clear case of encroachment (that has taken place within a ten year period) then their Solicitor will advise them to move the fence or settle.

arborlad
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by arborlad » Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:06 pm

Morgan Sweet wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:13 pm

The advice I had from experienced Solicitors in cases of encroachment was to provide the encroacher with the facts with both TITLE PLANS and the important thing to accomplish was to get the stubborn encroacher to also seek legal advice on their situation from their own Solicitor. If the case is a clear case of encroachment (that has taken place within a ten year period) then their Solicitor will advise them to move the fence or settle.


This is good advice and I'm not sure why you haven't mentioned it before, excepting the over emphasis on the role of the title plans.

All evidence will be considered along with how much weight can be given to any part of it. The most compelling piece of evidence will be the two uncontested fences at either end of the contentious one.

Unless you know something about title plans the rest of us don't, in which case you should share with the forum, the role of the title plan will be limited to how one property relates to another - nothing else!
arborlad

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Morgan Sweet
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by Morgan Sweet » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:55 pm

arborlad wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:06 pm
Morgan Sweet wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:13 pm

The advice I had from experienced Solicitors in cases of encroachment was to provide the encroacher with the facts with both TITLE PLANS and the important thing to accomplish was to get the stubborn encroacher to also seek legal advice on their situation from their own Solicitor. If the case is a clear case of encroachment (that has taken place within a ten year period) then their Solicitor will advise them to move the fence or settle.


This is good advice and I'm not sure why you haven't mentioned it before, excepting the over emphasis on the role of the title plans.

All evidence will be considered along with how much weight can be given to any part of it. The most compelling piece of evidence will be the two uncontested fences at either end of the contentious one.

Unless you know something about title plans the rest of us don't, in which case you should share with the forum, the role of the title plan will be limited to how one property relates to another - nothing else!
There are now Chartered Land Surveyors using modern GPS (Trimble) technology that can accurately plot the boundary with the aid of GPS co-ordinates and laser measuring devices from the OS maps (in CAD format) and overlaying LR Title Plans. They will also provide this evidence based upon modern technology in the form of a statement as an 'expert witnesss' to be used (if necessary) in a court of law. The LR Title Plan is an important part of the evidence of where the legal boundary exists.
Last edited by Morgan Sweet on Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

arborlad
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by arborlad » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:03 pm

Morgan Sweet wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:55 pm

There are now Chartered Land Surveyors using modern GPS (Trimble) technology that can accurately plot the boundary with the aid of GPS co-ordinates and laser measuring devices from the LR Title Plans. They will also provide this evidence based upon modern technology in the form of a statement as an 'expert witnesss' to be used (if necessary) in a court of law.


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3149
arborlad

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Morgan Sweet
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by Morgan Sweet » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:13 pm

So what?
Last edited by Morgan Sweet on Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

arborlad
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by arborlad » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:16 pm

arborlad wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:06 pm

Unless you know something about title plans the rest of us don't, in which case you should share with the forum, the role of the title plan will be limited to how one property relates to another - nothing else!
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

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