Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

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annie08
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by annie08 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:35 pm

The title deeds are incorrect because the fence is in the wrong place. I don't want any problems arising when I decide to sell the property.

arborlad
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by arborlad » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:09 am

arborlad wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:32 am
annie08 wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:19 pm
I was trying to impress upon him that our title deeds are incorrect and they need to be rectified.




Nothing whatsoever wrong with your title deeds - it is the fence that is incorrect and needs to be rectified.


I stand by this comment - it is correct.
arborlad

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MacadamB53
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by MacadamB53 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:56 am

arborlad wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:09 am
arborlad wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:32 am
annie08 wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:19 pm
I was trying to impress upon him that our title deeds are incorrect and they need to be rectified.




Nothing whatsoever wrong with your title deeds - it is the fence that is incorrect and needs to be rectified.


I stand by this comment - it is correct.
+1

Morgan Sweet
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by Morgan Sweet » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:51 pm

Annie08, I do not think it usual to rectify the Deeds to suit the fence position, rather the fence position should be rectified to align with the LR Title Plan.

If the Title Plan supports where the original fence line was, then it is clear that the out of line part of fence is encroaching upon your land. If an experienced solicitor agrees, then it should prove a simple task to remedy the situation. A letter from a solicitor may give the neighbour the encouragement to hurry up and settle the issue. If it ever got to a LR Tribunal the neighbour would lose if the encroachment is as you describe.

It is in my mind shameful that one has to spend money to get back what is already yours but as the law is at present I do not know what else one can legally do.

These sorts of situations are very rarely settled by a chat over the fence (literally) or with a professional fencer (unless armed with a sabre) in attendance and in my experience consulting with a solicitor is the best option.

If you do nothing and then want to sell, I suppose that you could always gift the land in question to another but I would first check how feasible and wise that would be.

arborlad
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by arborlad » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:24 am

The fence is in the wrong location - fact.

No amount of tinkering with paperwork will change that fact.
arborlad

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arborlad
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by arborlad » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:17 am

Morgan Sweet wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:51 pm
Annie08, I do not think it usual to rectify the Deeds to suit the fence position, rather the fence position should be rectified to align with the LR Title Plan.


This is only partially correct, the Title Plan is only intended to show you which property you bought, not where on that property the boundary lies.

The fences that lie at either end of it will be the most correct and reliable way of realigning it.
Last edited by arborlad on Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
arborlad

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Collaborate
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by Collaborate » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:24 am

arborlad wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:17 am
Morgan Sweet wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:51 pm
Annie08, I do not think it usual to rectify the Deeds to suit the fence position, rather the fence position should be rectified to align with the LR Title Plan.


This is only partially correct, the Title Plan is only intended to show you which property you bought, not where on that property the boundary lies.

The fences that lie at either end of it will be the most correct way of realigning it.
This has got to be correct. Where one boundary is in dispute, but the boundaries either side are not, it is by far the best way to establish where on the ground the drawn boundary is.

annie08
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by annie08 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:24 pm

Thanks for all your replies. I would be willing to transfer the bit of land in return for a nominal sum but I think he would be unwillingly to pay me a penny as he his still insistent there is no trespass. I don't think he and I can make any progress until his trespass is confirmed by a land surveyor. I intend speaking to my insurance company tomorrow who will confirm in the next couple of weeks if they will act on my behalf and appoint a surveyor.

arborlad
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by arborlad » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:06 pm

Any chance of an anonymised copy of the letter?
arborlad

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silverbirch89
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by silverbirch89 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:19 am

annie08 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:28 pm
Success! The bottom photo is the Rightmove one from 2013 taken by the estate agent showing the old fence. The other photos show how the fence, installed in 2015, is now. It is a shared boundary fence with his next door neighbour whose fence has stayed in its original position. One of the photos shows the dog leg and also the tree stump . The tree obscured the fact the fence had been moved until it blew down.
Am I right in thinking that in the top picture you are stood in your garden, leaning over the fence into his, and the dog-leg bit is where he's essentially moved portions of the fence forward a foot?

So in essence this... you've lost the bits in red?

https://imgur.com/a/nJxDjmn

annie08
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by annie08 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:26 pm

Not quite right. The boundary is shared between me and two people along the back. The tree stump is immediately in front of his neighbour's much shorter section which is not encroaching on my land. It was over her fence that I leaned to take the photo.

O
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
------ -----

Tree stump in my garden is indicated above . Broken lines indicate the correct boundary and x's indicate encroachment. If you look at the photo of his garden you referred to the front edge of the low wall he has constructed seems to me to be the correct boundary position.

Despite having a resizing app and managing to post images the other day I am struggling again. I do have better images of the full width of both sides of the fence. Will keep trying!

annie08
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by annie08 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:31 pm

For some reason the broken lines are moved when I post. I am losing the will to live! The broken lines should be showing either side of the x's and not directly below if that makes sense. 🤔 As per the diagram in my first post!

annie08
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by annie08 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:40 pm

IMG_5562.JPG
IMG_5565.JPG
One image shows the fence from his side with the low wall up against it. The front edge of it is where what I believe the correct boundary to be. The second image is from my garden and shows the amount of trespass.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Morgan Sweet
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Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by Morgan Sweet » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:26 pm

Annie08, you appear to be more concerned that your Land Registry Title Plan reflects where the fence has now been erected as opposed to getting the fence moved back to its correct position. This maybe because you do not want a problem when selling your property. You say that you would be prepared to sell the land to the encroacher to facilitate this. May I suggest that you could gift the land in question by transferring it to anyone prepared to accept it, however since it is such a small area I would suggest that a Surveyor should be involved and a Solicitor.

I do question if this is necessary now. Perhaps you could wait until you sell the property and if a buyer picks up on the encroachment you could agree to sell all that is fenced but keep the small area in your name by again transferring its ownership. This would then pose a problem if the neighbour ever chose to sell their property as you would on paper still legally own the encroached area.

Aborlad stated, the Title Plan is only intended to show you which property you bought, not where on that property the boundary lies.

This is absolute nonsense; the Title Plan is a legal document that will be consulted together with other forms of information to show the general boundary and is based on a scaled OS map. Modern Surveying equipment can plot such boundaries with high accuracy based on the Title Plan.

I still think that a no nonsence letter from a Solicitor (who has checked your evidence) would have the encroacher move the fence to its correct position.

annie08
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Location: northumberland

Re: Neighbour appropriated some of my garden

Post by annie08 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:34 pm

Thanks Morgan Sweet - the company that provides legal expenses cover for my insurance company are contacting my insurer. If they agree I am covered then they will appoint a solicitor who can appoint a land surveyor to go on site, look at the evidence I have including the title plans apparently, and decide where the correct boundary is. I only discovered the encroachment when the tree blew down and knew I should inform my insurers straight away if I had any hope of them acting on my behalf.

The neighbour is adamant the fence was replaced in exactly the same position and won't budge on that despite having seen the Rightmove photo from when he bought the property. I don't mind transferring the land to him but not for free especially given his hostile attitude. Neither do I want a Kings Ransom. A nominal sum would do. He is working away now until January but refuses to tell me when in January he is back but hopefully there will be a letter from my insurers waiting for him when he returns. He told my husband he does not have legal expenses cover on his policy so his response will be interesting if indeed my insurers accept my claim.

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