Boundary Problem When Selling

arborlad
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Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Boundary Problem When Selling

Post by arborlad » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:29 pm

Stag01 wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:03 pm
............... they erected a large and secure boundary fence which was never there before.



The law presumes you will fence to the fullest extent of your land, was there anything on the ground that would have prevented them from doing that?

Is there anything on the ground now, that would make anyone think that the existing fence isn't correct and marks the limit of their land?

'You saw what you bought and bought what you saw', is a good maxim in these circumstances.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

Stag01
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Re: Boundary Problem When Selling

Post by Stag01 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:05 pm

Yes there is a very old dry stone wall which would've been the original boundary. They wanted a secure boundary to their land so put up the fence, erecting the fence too near to the wall would've been dangerous so they put it where they put it

Clifford Pope
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Re: Boundary Problem When Selling

Post by Clifford Pope » Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:58 pm

Farmers round here do this all the time. We have a long field boundary with the neighbouring farmer. He couldn't be bothered controlling the brambles and blackthorn round the edges of the field so simply erected a new secure fence about ten feet inside the original. We haven't attempted to claim the strip, which is only marked by a single strand of wire on our side, but I have occasionally cut down the rampant blackthorn. All his fields are slowly getting smaller year by year, and are fringed by sort of nomansland strips that over time gradually look less and less like his fields and more and more like his neighbours'.

He's not alone in this attitude - there's one example of a now minute field surrounded by wide bands of woodland just allowed to go wild. No one seems bothered about it.

Morgan Sweet
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Re: Boundary Problem When Selling

Post by Morgan Sweet » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:04 pm

mr sheen wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:25 am
Boundary position agreement written up by and managed by a solicitor and signed by both parties may be a way.
The above in my view would be a most sensible suggestion and cheapest solution or if the neighbour agrees he could transfer the land in question to you if you were willing to offer to pay the legal and surveyor costs, this would no doubt be more costly.

Regarding other comments:

I do not agree that a stock fence always denotes the fullest extent of a farmers' land. A stock fence is to primary retain stock and most often not to denote or coincide with a Land Registry boundary. Rural boundaries conventions are a little more complicated than where you place barbed wire or any other stock fence.
http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boun ... ences.html
www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-pr ... edges.html

The "you saw what you bought and you bought what you saw" maxim is blatantly a false maxim as this situation proves.

arborlad
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Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Boundary Problem When Selling

Post by arborlad » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:06 pm

Stag01 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:05 pm
Yes there is a very old dry stone wall which would've been the original boundary. They wanted a secure boundary to their land so put up the fence, erecting the fence too near to the wall would've been dangerous so they put it where they put it



That was very unwise of them, is the wall still there?
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

Stag01
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Re: Boundary Problem When Selling

Post by Stag01 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:50 pm

Yes the wall is still there it is a retaining wall

arborlad
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Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Boundary Problem When Selling

Post by arborlad » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:38 am

Stag01 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:50 pm
Yes the wall is still there it is a retaining wall


A stone wall is going to have a larger footprint than an ordinary fence, add in that it is retaining, it is likely to have a significantly greater footprint. Whose land is higher?

Before you go any further, you need to speak to the neighbour and ask if they will agree to the fence - and nothing else - being the established boundary feature, if there is any reluctance or reticence on his/her behalf then you have great problems - if he/she agrees, you can move swiftly to formalising the agreement.
Last edited by arborlad on Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

arborlad
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Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Boundary Problem When Selling

Post by arborlad » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:46 am

Clifford Pope wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:58 pm
Farmers round here do this all the time. We have a long field boundary with the neighbouring farmer. He couldn't be bothered controlling the brambles and blackthorn round the edges of the field so simply erected a new secure fence about ten feet inside the original. We haven't attempted to claim the strip, which is only marked by a single strand of wire on our side, but I have occasionally cut down the rampant blackthorn. All his fields are slowly getting smaller year by year, and are fringed by sort of nomansland strips that over time gradually look less and less like his fields and more and more like his neighbours'.

He's not alone in this attitude - there's one example of a now minute field surrounded by wide bands of woodland just allowed to go wild. No one seems bothered about it.



Agricultural and residential don't normally compare well......................sounds great for the wildlife though.

These farms must be owned not tenanted nor arable - no agent would allow that to continue, what stock is run on there?
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

Stag01
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:14 pm

Re: Boundary Problem When Selling

Post by Stag01 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:08 pm

arborlad wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:38 am
Stag01 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:50 pm
Yes the wall is still there it is a retaining wall


A stone wall is going to have a larger footprint than an ordinary fence, add in that it is retaining, it is likely to have a significantly greater footprint. Whose land is higher?

Before you go any further, you need to speak to the neighbour and ask if they will agree to the fence - and nothing else - being the established boundary feature, if there is any reluctance or reticence on his/her behalf then you have great problems - if he/she agrees, you can move swiftly to formalising the agreement.
Thankyou for this advice, its their land that is higher. We have an approx. 6ft retaining wall which is the original boundary, their fence is approx. 1 mtr into the retained land

Clifford Pope
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Re: Boundary Problem When Selling

Post by Clifford Pope » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:16 am

Morgan Sweet wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:04 pm

I do not agree that a stock fence always denotes the fullest extent of a farmers' land.
No, of course it doesn't, and I wasn't saying it does. But if it becomes the only fence, and over the course of 30 years vegetation grows up in the abandoned area, the farmer is surely at least risking losing his land?

span
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:34 am

Re: Boundary Problem When Selling

Post by span » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:07 am

Stag01 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:08 pm
arborlad wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:38 am
Stag01 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:50 pm
Yes the wall is still there it is a retaining wall


A stone wall is going to have a larger footprint than an ordinary fence, add in that it is retaining, it is likely to have a significantly greater footprint. Whose land is higher?

Before you go any further, you need to speak to the neighbour and ask if they will agree to the fence - and nothing else - being the established boundary feature, if there is any reluctance or reticence on his/her behalf then you have great problems - if he/she agrees, you can move swiftly to formalising the agreement.
Thankyou for this advice, its their land that is higher. We have an approx. 6ft retaining wall which is the original boundary, their fence is approx. 1 mtr into the retained land
Makes my suggestion easier. Tell your vendor that the retaining wall is the boundary and that's all that you're selling.

Morgan Sweet
Posts: 340
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:47 pm

Re: Boundary Problem When Selling

Post by Morgan Sweet » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:56 pm

Clifford Pope wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:16 am
Morgan Sweet wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:04 pm

I do not agree that a stock fence always denotes the fullest extent of a farmers' land.
No, of course it doesn't, and I wasn't saying it does. But if it becomes the only fence, and over the course of 30 years vegetation grows up in the abandoned area, the farmer is surely at least risking losing his land?

I just cannot see how the land could be lost to the farmer. Defra carefully maps and periodically checks all land that a land owner is claiming a subsidy for (whether the old set-aside or not) and the land owner gets paid for the area, therefore profits from its ownership. The area of abandoned vegetation could well be under an environmental scheme. I fail to see how an application for adverse possession could succeed in these circumstances.

Stag01
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:14 pm

Re: Boundary Problem When Selling

Post by Stag01 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:16 pm

span wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:07 am
Stag01 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:08 pm
arborlad wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:38 am




A stone wall is going to have a larger footprint than an ordinary fence, add in that it is retaining, it is likely to have a significantly greater footprint. Whose land is higher?

Before you go any further, you need to speak to the neighbour and ask if they will agree to the fence - and nothing else - being the established boundary feature, if there is any reluctance or reticence on his/her behalf then you have great problems - if he/she agrees, you can move swiftly to formalising the agreement.
Thankyou for this advice, its their land that is higher. We have an approx. 6ft retaining wall which is the original boundary, their fence is approx. 1 mtr into the retained land
Makes my suggestion easier. Tell your vendor that the retaining wall is the boundary and that's all that you're selling.
I'm thinking that this is the easiest way forward especially in the current climate, I will state that the wall is the boundary as per title plan and hope that the buyer hasn't bought the property on the basis of having a small strip of elevated land!

Stag01
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:14 pm

Re: Boundary Problem When Selling

Post by Stag01 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:44 am

Morning, just to add to this, buyers solicitor has asked to redraw boundary on title plan, would we be obliged to do this? we do use the extra strip to sit at etc but original boundary wall hasn't moved

mr sheen
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Re: Boundary Problem When Selling

Post by mr sheen » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:27 pm

You can only sell and transfer to someone else land that you own. The plan should reflect the land you are transferring since you cannot transfer land you don’t own.

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