Council not doing dividing fence

nikirushka
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Council not doing dividing fence

Post by nikirushka »

I just want to see if there's any legal point here I might be able to use.

My house is a private owned semi, but my neighbours on the detached side are council owned. The council have been doing the fences on their properties, front and back, but refused to do anything with our dividing fence, stating that it was my boundary.

I was told that if I could show them the deeds to prove it was theirs, they would do it.

I did so, and they have come back to me saying that they still won't do it - the most they would do is to put up concrete posts to mark the boundary - because they've only been doing the back and front fences. I need to go back to them as the front dividing fence between me and the neighbours is gone (taken up by the neighbours when the council were doing the drive and still insisting it was my boundary) and I need that doing.

They are insisting that it's the tenants' responsibility - my neighbour is going to be leaving soon and the council say that it'll be up to the new tenants whether they want to do anything with the fence. I have replaced it at my own cost two years ago - but it's only 6ft high aviary mesh and wooden posts, not concreted in and I have 9 dogs. Although the current neighbours are very dog savvy and like them I have no diea who I'll get next, there will very likely be children and I have just taken on a fear aggressive dog. So I am concerned in case a child should put their fingers through (obviously I supervise my dogs in the garden but kids and dogs are both very quick!). I had to replace it as this has cropped up before - before the current neighbours moved in I expressed the same concern, back then the fence was a very old, rotten 4ft picket fence and they wouldn't do anything then either.

As the council have been doing the front and back fences, is there any legal way to get them to do the dividing fence also? It strikes me that if they have done some of the boundary then they are admitting that it is their responsibility and they should do the dividing fence too, especially as there is a potential safety issue here.
mugwump
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Re: Council not doing dividing fence

Post by mugwump »

The council may own the boundary but do not have to erect a fence. However you as a dog owner must take steps to ensure that your dogs are secure.
Mojisola
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Re: Council not doing dividing fence

Post by Mojisola »

nikirushka wrote: I have 9 dogs.

I have just taken on a fear aggressive dog.
Your responsibility to keep your dogs fenced in takes precedence over the neighbour's/council's boundary concerns, especially as you know one of them is likely to bite!
despair
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Re: Council not doing dividing fence

Post by despair »

EDITED

As said by others its a Dog Owners duty to secure /retain their own dogs
nikirushka
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Re: Council not doing dividing fence

Post by nikirushka »

And no-one needs an unpleasant response, yet here one is! You're making assumptions too - my dogs do not jump at the fence, and they do not chew it - they ignore it. They certainly won't 'wreck' it - that's true of the current fence just as it was true of the previous fence which would fall down with a push, it was that rotten: but they still didn't touch it. It is also totally secure as is, obviously it's up to me to make sure of that with having the dogs I have which is why I put the current fence up in the first place. My concern lies with it being made of mesh as fingers can fit through it (had I had the money to do so I would have panelled it, of course). I'll just have to sort out some sort of covering so that can't happen.

I have the dogs I have because I work as a professional canine behaviourist and I enjoy taking on troubled dogs and the reward that comes with rehabilitating them. I appreciate that most people don't enjoy that, and frankly I'd love to see a world where they didn't get so mistreated that they end up aggressive. But I digress.

I asked a simple question, I did not know if the safety aspect might change things (with it being mesh and small fingers etc), and mugwump's reply was just fine (thank you mugwump).
mr sheen
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Re: Council not doing dividing fence

Post by mr sheen »

[quote="nikirushka
As the council have been doing the front and back fences, is there any legal way to get them to do the dividing fence also?
No

It strikes me that if they have done some of the boundary then they are admitting that it is their responsibility and they should do the dividing fence too, especially as there is a potential safety issue here.[/quote]

Putting up a fence is a choice and the Council are choosing to put up some fences, they cannot be forced to put up any by owners of private properties.
mugwump
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Re: Council not doing dividing fence

Post by mugwump »

I'm sure that the neighbours would be interested in somebody running a business dealing with behaviourally challenged dogs in a residential area.
nikirushka
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Re: Council not doing dividing fence

Post by nikirushka »

mugwump wrote:I'm sure that the neighbours would be interested in somebody running a business dealing with behaviourally challenged dogs in a residential area.
Why the unpleasantness here? I wanted to know if anything further could be done about this fence, and felt I needed to explain the situation to aid that query, and yet I'm getting personal attacks and frankly, the above reads to me as a thinly veiled threat which is totally inappropriate and unnecessary.

I'm not "running a business dealing with behaviourally challenged dogs in a residential area" - the dogs I take on here are MINE, they are my PETS, no-one else's. I don't take on clients' dogs to rehabilitate then send them back - anyone with an ounce of knowledge about dog behaviour will know that that is pointless because it's all about how the owner handles them and the environment they live in, and a dog will behave differently with a different person in a different place. I work away from home in that respect - I go to clients' homes to work with them there. It was my own first aggressive dog that led to me becoming a behaviourist, not the other way around - my work and my home are separate. My neighbours are fully aware of what I do and the dogs I own; the fence is only becoming an issue since the neighbours on that side are moving out, which is a very recent and unplanned change. I did however let them know I would be taking on the frightened dog, and exactly what his issues are, long before he actually arrived (and before they knew they would be moving out).

I keep my dogs safe - as I have already stated, the fence is secure but I am concerned with it being made of mesh; but since I can't get it replaced, I will get it covered somehow so fingers cannot be put through. Again I have already said this.
mr sheen wrote:Putting up a fence is a choice and the Council are choosing to put up some fences, they cannot be forced to put up any by owners of private properties.
Thank you, that is all I needed and what I suspected was the case, but confirmation was needed.

I'll leave it there, I've got the answer I was after and thank you, mr sheen, for giving it to me without criticising my lifestyle. If this thread could be locked now I'd appreciate it, thank you.
nikirushka
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Re: Council not doing dividing fence

Post by nikirushka »

All the necessary information for an answer was in my first post (as evidenced by how 3 people actually answered it based on that first post). I could have just said 'is there a way to get the council to do the fence?' and nothing else but I felt giving more info than that would be helpful.

Breed/type of my dogs is completely irrelevant (I included the number only to give a more complete picture) - raised and trained correctly any and all breeds can be well adjusted, well behaved, sociable dogs. Yes, that includes rotts and GSDs. Unfortunately for my new boy, he was raised by an a-hole who thought 'training' meant battering the hell out of him.

And no, I didn't take umbrage at "most" peoples' response to my dogs (people are actually overwhelmingly positive about the dogs I have and take on, and what I do, including both past and present neighbours - and the new neighbours will be approached straight away to explain about my dogs so that things start off on a good footing); I took umbrage to people making false assumptions about my dogs, my situation and what I do and criticising me based on those false assumptions.
andrew54
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Re: Council not doing dividing fence

Post by andrew54 »

nikirushka, maybe you need to realise that many people don't like dogs, and even those that do like dogs might not be happy with so many dogs next door. I could not possibly live next door to that. The smell, the noise, and my fear of dogs would be intolerable with 9 dogs next door. Unfortunately many dog owners do not appreciate how others feel, clearly you don't. You seem to think that breed doesn't matter, but it does matter - I am afraid of some breeds more than others.

I apologise that this is off topic, but since you took umbrage at some comments, I am trying to explain to you why you have to expect some people to be unhappy with you having so many dogs. I nearly said so many horrible dogs, because to me that is what dogs are, horribly.

Please spend your money on a good secure fence to restrain your animals from coming into contact with people. If you can't afford the fence you shouldn't have the dogs.
hzatph
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Re: Council not doing dividing fence

Post by hzatph »

nikirushka, unfortunately some regular posters on here rush to judgement based on their own prejudices and assumptions. It is embarrassing sometimes.

Your neighbour appears to have behaved rashly but unless they have removed a structure that is undoubtedly yours there is little you can do but to replace it. I don't see how you can have a course of action against the council.
despair
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Re: Council not doing dividing fence

Post by despair »

For information ............I do not hate dogs i have 2 of my own but i have to agree that for many many people 9 dogs next door would be intolerable especially if theres no solid fence and if they were alsations or rottweilers or any other similar breed i would be very unhappy indeed

Anyone who can afford to feed and pay vets bills for 9 dogs should also be able to afford a strong fence

As for those who abuse animals of any sort the punishment i think they deserve would not go down well with todays soft treatment of offenders
nikirushka
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Re: Council not doing dividing fence

Post by nikirushka »

Again assumptions - my dogs are not noisy and there is no smell, because I am very conscientious about keeping my garden clean and I don't allow barking.

I am also fully aware of how other people feel - I know people with dog/breed phobias and have even helped one person get over it. I often have people ask me about a particular breed they are worried about, for my thoughts on what that breed is actually like (and I am honest, I give the good and bad). As part of my work I have to be fully aware of how people are feeling, what they are doing and are about to do (and likewise with other dogs) and so on in order to be successful with the clients' dogs. If I didn't appreciate how others might feel about dogs, why would I maintain such control over my dogs out and about and at home, to make sure they don't upset anyone? Why would I bother to go and introduce myself to the new neighbours as and when they arrive, and explain about the dogs? I intend to do that to find out if they have any concerns or fears so I can make any adjustments necessary to keep everyone happy. I don't want to be a source of stress for anyone, I'll have been here 6 years in November and it's always been harmonious and friendly with my neighbours, and I want to keep it that way, for everyones' sakes.

I reiterate again also, breed is irrelevant - quite aside from the fact that I started this thread to ask about the fence, so the breed of my dogs is totally off topic anyway, the fear aggressive newbie is a 7kg tan miniature pinscher. Smallest of the lot by far. He looks very approachable and friendly, he's just scared to death of being touched. You CANNOT judge a dog based on breed, it is all in how they are raised. I appreciate some people are concerned about certain breeds - mostly these days thanks to the media and irresponsible owners who don't take steps to keep their dogs and kids safe. But in this situation, for this topic and the question I asked, breed/type is nonetheless irrelevant.
hzatph wrote:Your neighbour appears to have behaved rashly
Thank you hzatph. I'm not sure what you're referring to here though - do you mean them taking the front part of the fence out? If so that was done with my permission (as the council were then certain it was my boundary, the neighbours had to ask me first) - to redo their drive would have likely meant damage to the fence anyway, and as it too was rotten (still being the original picket fence at the front) we agreed it was best to remove it. The neighbours were going to replace it but didn't. That part at least the council will do as it is part of the front fencing and part of what they have been doing already, they've said as much. That doesn't affect the security of the rest of it as I have a 6ft solid gate up where the back part of the fence begins.

My only concern is new neighbours and the potential for fingers coming through the mesh at the back from kids but again as I've said before, I will deal with that. I just hoped there might be some help from the council but as there is not, I will sort it out as yes, it is my responsibility. I already intend on redoing the posts with concrete (that will be done once I've met the new neighbours, in case they might intend on replacing it fully so the concrete around my posts doesn't get in the way), I had just hoped the whole thing might get replaced. But as it won't, I will make it finger-proof asap and work on replacing it with proper panelling over time (the neighbours were also going to do this, before everything changed for them). I can't afford to do it all in one go but I will get it done.
andrew54
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Re: Council not doing dividing fence

Post by andrew54 »

Niki, I tried to explain my thoughts on dogs. You simply tell me I am wrong. I find this is the problem with dog owners - they will not admit that some people don't like dogs. You don't even consider that I might be more afraid of some dogs than others. Just you talking to your dogs is noise, noise that would remind me that your dogs exist.
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Mattylad
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Re: Council not doing dividing fence

Post by Mattylad »

ALL dogs smell, dog owners just get used to it so cannot smell it but Nikki I am afraid that they do.
When a do does its business it smells, no matter how soon you clear it up.
As much as you may think your an excellent dog owner your neighbours may not like it - many do not.

No assumptions there, just plain facts.

Put up your own decent/strong fence that will retain your dogs in your property - this I see as the only option - it is not the councils responsibility to retain your animals. It is wrong of you to consider it so.

You may take umbridge at this, however it does not change the facts.
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