Replacement Fence - Do I have any rights?

despair
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Re: Replacement Fence - Do I have any rights?

Post by despair »

I have told you why he has put the posts on your land and that legally the podts and panels become yours as whats on the land goes with the land


Whatever you decide to do draw up a document 2 copies detailing what has been agreed and get it signed and by all parties and witnessed by someone impartial
But if you do not sort out the fact he has put the fence on your land yes it could well cause trouble down the line
MacadamB53
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Re: Replacement Fence - Do I have any rights?

Post by MacadamB53 »

Hi Baytree,

which he has "illegally" placed over the boundary

unlawful, not illegal - you have been wronged but no crime has been committed

someone has said to me that we could run into trouble further down the line if we want to sell the property at any time

in what way?

kind regards, Mac
Baytree
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Re: Replacement Fence - Do I have any rights?

Post by Baytree »

What is the difference between "unlawful" and "illegal" please? I can sort of see what you're saying, but if something is "unlawful" is there anything I can do about it?

This is what I am trying to find out - "in what way" will it (potentially) affect any future property sale ???

Thank you.
MacadamB53
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Re: Replacement Fence - Do I have any rights?

Post by MacadamB53 »

Hi Baytree,

an illegal act is a crime, an offence (e.g. murder, theft, assault) and involves the police and CPS (usually) and a punishment.

an unlawful act is a civil wrong (e.g. trespass) and involves individuals and resolution and/or compensation.

could your neighbour be arrested for erecting his fence out of place? no - so it’s not illegal

hope the makes sense.

what did your “someone” tell you about how it could go wrong when you sell? I wasn’t there when they told you so I don’t know...

kind regards, Mac
Morgan Sweet
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Re: Replacement Fence - Do I have any rights?

Post by Morgan Sweet »

Hello Bay tree

I am not sure that the presumption that if he erects a fence on your land the fence becomes yours is helpful (or correct). It is still his fence that he has placed on your property.

He can place the panels on his land facing which ever way he wishes but you may be able to negotiate a change to this.

The problem with his posts remaining on your land is that this could lead to a boundary dispute in the future and the longer that they remain on your land the more difficult it may prove for you to get them removed.

It is possible if you come to sell your house a surveyor may notice the encroaching fence and a buyer could use this as a reason to question the purchase; however it may just as likely make no difference to them whatsoever.


Personally I have no legal qualifications at all but have had experience of three boundary disputes and if the post are clearly encroaching then they should be moved to his side of the boundary or you enter into a legal agreement that the concrete posts are on your property and become yours to do with as you wish.
MacadamB53
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Re: Replacement Fence - Do I have any rights?

Post by MacadamB53 »

Hi Morgan Sweet,

It is still his fence that he has placed on your property.

no, you seem to be missing the point - the law considers anything attached to land, like a house, as part of the land so it isn’t his fence if it’s attached to the OP’s land.

which means this isn’t necessary:

enter into a legal agreement that the concrete posts are on your property and become yours to do with as you wish

kind regards, Mac
Last edited by MacadamB53 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
Collaborate
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Re: Replacement Fence - Do I have any rights?

Post by Collaborate »

MacadamB53 wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:22 am Hi Baytree,

an illegal act is a crime, an offence (e.g. murder, theft, assault) and involves the police and CPS (usually) and a punishment.

an unlawful act is a civil wrong (e.g. trespass) and involves individuals and resolution and/or compensation.

could your neighbour be arrested for erecting his fence out of place? no - so it’s not illegal

hope the makes sense.

what did your “someone” tell you about how it could go wrong when you sell? I wasn’t there when they told you so I don’t know...

kind regards, Mac
Mac - you keep on posting this - which is incorrect.

Definitions of the word "illegal" from online legal dictionaries include:
1) adj. in violation of statute, regulation or ordinance, which may be criminal or merely not in conformity. Thus, an armed robbery is illegal, and so is an access road which is narrower than the county allows, but the violation is not criminal.
Not authorized by law; Illicit ; unlawful; contrary to law.Sometimes this term means merely that which lacks authority of or support from law;but more frequently it imports a violation.
contrary to or in violation of a law : illicit, unlawful an illegal contract
I could go on, but you get the gist. Sorry for being a pedant. It's an itch I needed to scratch.
MacadamB53
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Re: Replacement Fence - Do I have any rights?

Post by MacadamB53 »

Collaborate wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:04 am
MacadamB53 wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:22 am Hi Baytree,

an illegal act is a crime, an offence (e.g. murder, theft, assault) and involves the police and CPS (usually) and a punishment.

an unlawful act is a civil wrong (e.g. trespass) and involves individuals and resolution and/or compensation.

could your neighbour be arrested for erecting his fence out of place? no - so it’s not illegal

hope the makes sense.

what did your “someone” tell you about how it could go wrong when you sell? I wasn’t there when they told you so I don’t know...

kind regards, Mac
Mac - you keep on posting this - which is incorrect.

Definitions of the word "illegal" from online legal dictionaries include:
1) adj. in violation of statute, regulation or ordinance, which may be criminal or merely not in conformity. Thus, an armed robbery is illegal, and so is an access road which is narrower than the county allows, but the violation is not criminal.
Not authorized by law; Illicit ; unlawful; contrary to law.Sometimes this term means merely that which lacks authority of or support from law;but more frequently it imports a violation.
contrary to or in violation of a law : illicit, unlawful an illegal contract
I could go on, but you get the gist. Sorry for being a pedant. It's an itch I needed to scratch.
Hi Collaborate,

I don’t get the gist, sorry.

using the word “illegal” to describe a civil wrong is both incorrect and is liable to make the situation worse - do you get the gist?

kind regards, Mac
Morgan Sweet
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Re: Replacement Fence - Do I have any rights?

Post by Morgan Sweet »

MacadamB53 wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:04 am Hi Morgan Sweet,

It is still his fence that he has placed on your property.

no, you seem to be missing the point - the law considers anything attached to land, like a house, as part of the land so it isn’t his fence if it’s attached to the OP’s land.

which means this isn’t necessary:

enter into a legal agreement that the concrete posts are on your property and become yours to do with as you wish

kind regards, Mac
Hell Mac

Yes I thought that this was the case as well but it is just too simplistic, in practice the neighbour can simply dispute that the posts are on other person's land.

I agree that when A sells land to B then all attached to the land that belonged to A becomes B's property, but I question that anything belonging to C becomes B's property.

In my boundary dispute the (clearly) encroaching fence and hedge only became my property after the resolution of the dispute and only on a new fence being erected by the developer on his side of the legally agreed boundary. It was then legally agreed in writing that the developer's encroaching fence and hedge became my property 'to do so as I wish'. I could have asked the developer to remove HIS encroaching fence to His side of the boundary yo resolve the dispute but it was never suggested that the fence was mine just because it was placed on my land.
Baytree
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Re: Replacement Fence - Do I have any rights?

Post by Baytree »

Thanks for all your replies.



____[ ]______[ ]______[ ]________________________________________________________________________[ ]_______[ ]_______[ ]__
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This is a very crude attempt at showing what he has done. The straight line denotes where the fence panels are now, and always have been. The top "posts" at the ends of the fence panels are on my neighbour's land where they were previously. The bottom "posts" in the middle of the fence are the new concrete posts he has placed over the boundary line and into our flower bed. So the top and bottom of the fence we have the good side, and the middle 7 posts, we have the bad side. If I, or any future owner of the property, were to want a straight fence with all the panels facing the same way, whether they be back or front, it cannot be done with the posts as they are. If I wanted to put panels on the posts on my side of the property, which some of you are saying are now my posts, we would lose a good 6 inches of our flower bed, and the fence would not be straight. Presumably I am legally entitled to get him to put the posts back to where they were as he has "unlawfully" put them on our property in the first place? Sorry to keep going on about it, and thanks again for your answers.
despair
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Re: Replacement Fence - Do I have any rights?

Post by despair »

I repeat again ...he has put those posts on your land because he was too bone idle to dig out old posts foundations and it was easier while you were away to put them in your flower beds ....i would personally dig my heels in and tell him in no uncertain terms to move them ...back if front of his fence panels is irrelevant

If he sorts out the fence line correctly just either put your own posts and trellis panels in front tight up to his fence but stagger the posts so they are midway of his panels then grow a plethora of clematis or other climbers up and ignore the idiot
Morgan Sweet
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Re: Replacement Fence - Do I have any rights?

Post by Morgan Sweet »

I agree with Despair.

From your description your neighbour has placed his fence posts on your land. You have to make him aware of this in writing with some form of recorded delivery. This should prevent him at any future time from claiming adverse possession after 10 years. (He will not then be able to claim that he had always thought that this land was his.)


My advice is only based on three boundary disputes that I have had the misfortune to experience, I have no legal qualifications whatsoever but much experience in these stressful situations.


Once someone has taken possession of your land they have the advantage in that you have to get them off. It is not as simple as the posts are on my land so therefore they are mine. If the matter ever goes to a court (which I sincerely hope it does not) it is imperative that you can show that you did everything 'by the book'.

If you do want your neighbour to remove the encroaching posts, obviously write in your polite letter that you request that he removes them and resites them on his side of the boundary within a specified time-scale or you will be reluctantly taking legal action. In this letter or verbally explain to him that it will affect both of you should either of you wish to sell their house in the future if this is not resolved. If he disputes where the boundary is, then in writing, suggest 'a joint declaration of the boundary' by an independent Chartered Surveyor. It is important that you do this as soon as possible and that you can show that you have been reasonable in trying to resolve the matter without legal redress. If he still refuses to remove the posts then consider paying for a solicitor experienced in boundary disputes/property issues to advise and if appropriate act for you. From what you describe it is a clear case of encroachment that he will have to remedy.

At present there is a new proposed law that is slowly going through parliament that would help in these unfortunate situations where land grabbers can take advantage of the present laws and will put them at a clear disadvantage.
Collaborate
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Re: Replacement Fence - Do I have any rights?

Post by Collaborate »

MacadamB53 wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:13 am

using the word “illegal” to describe a civil wrong is both incorrect and is liable to make the situation worse - do you get the gist?

kind regards, Mac
I understand what you're saying, but you're wrong. As all legal dictionaries attest. Unless of course they're all wrong and you're right.
arborlad
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Re: Replacement Fence - Do I have any rights?

Post by arborlad »

Baytree wrote: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:45 pm After a big hoo haa, and a very heated conversation with my neighbour I have agreed that if he turns two of the back fence panels round so that the whole of our patio area will have the good side of the fence showing, then I can live with the lower level of the garden having the concrete posts and back fence panels which he has "illegally" placed over the boundary onto our land. However, someone has said to me that we could run into trouble further down the line if we want to sell the property at any time. Is this true? He has said there is no way he can move the concrete posts as they are cemented two feet down? I am guessing that as he has illegally placed them over the boundary I am entitled to get him to move them if it will cause future problems and I take legal action. As I say, I can live with the proposed compromise, but not if it causes problems with any future property sale. Can anyone help please. Also, just out of interest, has anyone else come across someone replacing a fence with half front facing and half back facing panels? Why would you, or is it me?? :roll:


I'm afraid that's not a compromise but a capitulation and you're making far too much emphasis on appearance.

Has there been any communication about this fence before?

You don't want to own a fence, you still own the land and want to be able to use it for your own purposes - not the neighbours!
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
Baytree
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Re: Replacement Fence - Do I have any rights?

Post by Baytree »

No there have never been any problems with the fence in the past. I have today written to him to say that what he has done is unlawful and I am legally entitled to get him to re-site the posts to their original place on his land, as it was previously, and that this is what I want him to do.
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