Plan referred to in deeds

Dex_3199
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:15 am

Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by Dex_3199 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:22 pm

ukmicky wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:56 pm
You can enforce the 1 tonne restriction if that helps
Could that not also apply to us the servient?, I’m guessing there was a weight limit in place due to the pipes etc underneath the access road.

Long story short our neighbour has done all sorts to cause issues such as leaving the car on the access road and we’ve had enough, we only came across all this when seeking advice. I know what people say about solicitors but we know and trust this guy he specialises in property law etc and gained our trust in the past with a financial dispute by giving us our money back saying it’s not worth it. Yet on this right of way dispute he’s went away, looked into it and is sure if they can’t gain access within the blue area then it’s trespass. He did say we would probably need to get the plan interpreted by a surveyor if need be.

It started because we initially asked if they would contribute something towards electricity and maintainence of our electric roller shutters although we said they have no obligation to do so it would help maintain relations since the shutters are constantly being used by them. Yeah they pretty much told us where to shove it so for the sake of say £300 they’ve spent quite a lot on a solicitor, probably thousands.

siteone
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:34 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by siteone » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:36 am

ANy surveyor usual rics etc can help with these disputes or at least get the info you are needing to rest your mind one way or another.


https://www.ricsfirms.com/

Dex_3199
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:15 am

Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by Dex_3199 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:53 pm

siteone wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:36 am
ANy surveyor usual rics etc can help with these disputes or at least get the info you are needing to rest your mind one way or another.


https://www.ricsfirms.com/
Thanks I’ll take a look at that, it is pretty much a see where we stand kind of situation.

ukmicky
Posts: 4822
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:13 pm
Number of Posts per Page: 20
Number of topics per page: 20
Location: London

Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by ukmicky » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:38 pm

Dex_3199 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:22 pm
ukmicky wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:56 pm
You can enforce the 1 tonne restriction if that helps
Could that not also apply to us the servient?, I’m guessing there was a weight limit in place due to the pipes etc underneath the access road.

Long story short our neighbour has done all sorts to cause issues such as leaving the car on the access road and we’ve had enough, we only came across all this when seeking advice. I know what people say about solicitors but we know and trust this guy he specialises in property law etc and gained our trust in the past with a financial dispute by giving us our money back saying it’s not worth it. Yet on this right of way dispute he’s went away, looked into it and is sure if they can’t gain access within the blue area then it’s trespass. He did say we would probably need to get the plan interpreted by a surveyor if need be.

It started because we initially asked if they would contribute something towards electricity and maintainence of our electric roller shutters although we said they have no obligation to do so it would help maintain relations since the shutters are constantly being used by them. Yeah they pretty much told us where to shove it so for the sake of say £300 they’ve spent quite a lot on a solicitor, probably thousands.
No as the land owners you could drive a 10 ton vehicle down there. The restriction does not apply to you. You could use it as a bargaining chip . I’m going to enforce the one ton restriction unless ..........

If you were to go down that line put any agreement in writting so it prevents a prescriptive right after 20 years. And don’t make any agreement permanant.
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion

IdefixUK
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:07 pm
Number of topics per page: 25

Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by IdefixUK » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:35 am

Hello Dex_3199
One imperial ton is 1016.047 kilos. A quick seatch of the Internet will give kerb weights of the Audi A1 ranging upwards from 1035 kg. Kerb weights can include some fuel in the tank and 75 kg for a driver. Shipping dry weights for cars is the empty car, no fuel, no oil, no coolant, no spare tyre, no tool kit. I suspect that the Audi A1 dry shipping weight could be technically under the one ton mentioned in the deeds. (depentent upon model and date of manufacture etc). So if push came to shove over this issue you might well fail to establish that your neighbour is exceeding the terms of the easement.
I agree with other contributors who have said that you shouldn't attempt to measure off the plan that you have.
Is that building you have to the rear of your house a garage? If so the blue area stopping short of it along the boundary might have been so as not to interfere with an open left sided garage door.
Regards.

siteone
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:34 pm
Location: Southampton

Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by siteone » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:08 am

I think concentrating on the one ton limit is not going to go down very well with a judge, if it came to that. I appreciate that it states the requirement, but cars have changed and developed since then. I suspect anyone would say it is reasonable to expect a normal car to access the property. An Audi A1 is a very small car, and not out of keeping with any property.

Collaborate
Posts: 1606
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:17 am
Number of Posts per Page: 20
Number of topics per page: 20

Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by Collaborate » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:37 am

The one tonne weight limit can certainly be enforced unless by prescription the limit has been allowed to be exceeded, for which it would be the responsibility of the dominant owner to prove. I presume the previous posters who have said it's unenforceable are advising so on the basis that many cars today exceed that limit. However the dominant owner must be able to prove on the balance of probabilities what cars exceeding the weight limit have, over the last 20 years, regularly been driven on the right of way. It might well be harder than people think. It's not just a case of saying that many cars exceeded the limit. The guesswork has to be taken out of it, or else the dominant owner would not satisfy the evidential burden sufficient to get a finding in their favour.

IdefixUK
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:07 pm
Number of topics per page: 25

Re: Plan referred to in deeds

Post by IdefixUK » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:03 pm

It is not yet clear if the deeds of the OP's property contain any reference to the marks A and B where the blue land of the OP joins the land of the neighbour. I would suggest that the OP downloads the deeds and title plan for the neighbour's property to see how the ROW is described in those documents. This can be done for a small cost from the (genuine .gov) Land Registry web site using a debit or credit card.

It seems to me that the OP wishes (amongst other things), to prevent any prescriptive rights being gained by the neighbour in excess of those already expessed in the existing easement. To me the case of Winterburn & Anor v Bennett & Anor [2016] EWCA Civ 482 indicates that if the OP were to erect and maintain signage regarding the route of the expressed ROW together with the weight limit, then any use beyond this becomes "with force" ; the signage would indicate the OP's continuous and unmistakable protest to such excess use. Any "excess" use after the date of the erection of the sign would then not be seen as being acquiesced to by the serviant owner and thus would not count towards the twenty year presciptive period.
Regards

Post Reply