New fence obstructing vehicles

siteone
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Re: New fence obstructing vehicles

Post by siteone » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:56 pm

The right of way, should be able to be used as easily as before the obstruction.

I hope everyone has recovered from the fire.

I see the access is probably 3 m wide, and so he thinks that is the width of the right of way. He is wrong, many court cases about that.

pilman
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Re: New fence obstructing vehicles

Post by pilman » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:08 pm

Based on the satellite image posted there was no fence, so that a prescriptive easement that would have become a legal easement after 20 years use of a route would have meant that large vehicles cut across the unfenced area of land whilst turning to the right.

That would now be the legal route of the right of way to be used by the larger vehicles.

Using historical images that can be seen on the earlier editions of Ordnance Survey maps from 1898 to 1974 as can be viewed on old-maps.co.uk, and by using the Google Earth images from 1940 right up to 2018 it is possible to identify the route of the prescriptive easement that allowed access by larger vehicles to the land behind the houses with frontage to High Street.

The land recently sold off was burdened by a right of way that had existed for well over a hundred years, so that by erecting a fence the new owner has caused a substantial obstruction to a legal right of way.

All of this needs to be explained to the new owner because it does seem that an application for an injunction to have the fence removed so that the original right of way is not obstructed will be relatively easy one to be granted by a court using the evidence provided by the earlier maps and aerial photos to show where the right of way has always existed.

craigsman
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Re: New fence obstructing vehicles

Post by craigsman » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:54 am

Hi All,

Thank you so much for your replies. I spoke to the guy yesterday and he doesn't seem to understand. I think it's a case of him just not thinking about what he is doing. He's also poured concrete between the fence and his building to create a (really bad) seating area.

I will talk to my insurance company about who takes the legal route. It may be covered by them.

Cheers!

arborlad
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Re: New fence obstructing vehicles

Post by arborlad » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:47 am

craigsman wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:54 am
Hi All,

Thank you so much for your replies. I spoke to the guy yesterday and he doesn't seem to understand. I think it's a case of him just not thinking about what he is doing. He's also poured concrete between the fence and his building to create a (really bad) seating area.

I will talk to my insurance company about who takes the legal route. It may be covered by them.

Cheers!



Presumably there are other neighbours who are similarly affected by the fence, as well as seeking advice on your own position, you should impress upon the neighbour the importance of seeking there own independent advice on the situation.

In the recent fire, was the Fire Brigade able to use this access?
Last edited by arborlad on Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

mugwump
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Re: New fence obstructing vehicles

Post by mugwump » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:54 am

arborlad wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:47 am

In the recent fire, was the Fire Brigade able to use this access?
Immaterial. Lots of houses don't have rear access for vehicles by design. If FB needed water to the back they would run hoses, not take a tender down a narrow lane.

Collaborate
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Re: New fence obstructing vehicles

Post by Collaborate » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:59 am

Building Regs say that a fire tender should be able to get 45m from the furthest point of a property (something to do with the length of a hose).

arborlad
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Re: New fence obstructing vehicles

Post by arborlad » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:53 am

mugwump wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:54 am
arborlad wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:47 am

In the recent fire, was the Fire Brigade able to use this access?
Immaterial. Lots of houses don't have rear access for vehicles by design. If FB needed water to the back they would run hoses, not take a tender down a narrow lane.



Not necessarily, it would be an indication of the available width before the fence was erected.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

MacadamB53
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Re: New fence obstructing vehicles

Post by MacadamB53 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:49 am

Collaborate wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:59 am
Building Regs say that a fire tender should be able to get 45m from the furthest point of a property (something to do with the length of a hose).
is that not relevant for new buildings only, though?

mugwump
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Re: New fence obstructing vehicles

Post by mugwump » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:54 am

It must be because I can show you streets of terraced houses built before 1960 that only have a 5ft path between the backs of adjacent streets. Is the 45m AROUND the building or through?

Pick any mining or industrial town and you will see numerous examples of this.

How many houses don't even have rear access at all? Quite a few I would think.

ETA
The road at the front gives the required access if you look at the example given in approved document B vol 2 section B5.

Collaborate
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Re: New fence obstructing vehicles

Post by Collaborate » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:25 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:49 am
Collaborate wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:59 am
Building Regs say that a fire tender should be able to get 45m from the furthest point of a property (something to do with the length of a hose).
is that not relevant for new buildings only, though?
Yes, but it will be bourne in mind when the easements were created the nature of the access needed,

mugwump
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Re: New fence obstructing vehicles

Post by mugwump » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:32 pm

If you actually read BRs then access for a vehicle front and back is not a requirement so I doubt whether it was a condition of the easement.

As long as the furthest point of the building (not curtilage) is within 45 m of a vehicle access suitable for a fire tender, even though it may be through the building then the regulations are met.

craigsman
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Re: New fence obstructing vehicles

Post by craigsman » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:40 pm

Unfortunately the fire engines could not get to the back. They had to park in the pub car park and run the hose around the back.

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