Fly tipping on private RoW

w3526602
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Fly tipping on private RoW

Post by w3526602 »

Hi,

My garden backs onto a private RoW, owner unknown. My garage opens onto this lane, and as there is no hammerhead, I have to reverse about 100 yards up the lane, before I can turn around. Only I have this problem, as my property is at the end of the cul-de-sac lane. The lane is about 15ft wide.

A few months ago, a pile of clay and small rubble appeared along the bottom of the wall of a house on other side of the lane, but some yards along the lane from my garage. The houses on other side of the lane are council and ex-council. They have pedstrian access only, by prescriptive easement. This particular wall is council owned. The pile is spead over about 10ft, and I guestimates it was a "short ton". I was planning to be neighbourly, and gradually move the pile of clay/rubble, in buckets, and dump it in a friend's "hole".

When I went out yesterday, I found that the pile had grown over the weekend, to what I guestimate as a "large two tons", but worse, the new dumping was mainly large lumps of masonry. No way can I move that in buckets. It needs a skip or tipper truck, and preferably a JCB to load it. The pile is now such that it is an obstacle to reversing down the lane on my mirrors, but I don't think it will unduly bother anybody else.

To summarise, its a private right of way, a load of masonary has been fly tipped, the owner of the lane is unknown, the fly-tipper is unknown, although I have my suspicions ( a neighbour at other end of the street has just dug up his drive). Is there anyway I can get the council to move this dumping?

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zaax
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Re: Fly tipping on private RoW

Post by zaax »

Talk to your council about it.
I know nothing about the law.
Roblewis
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Re: Fly tipping on private RoW

Post by Roblewis »

The council are empowered to remove the materials and contra charge the owner of the RoW. I am not sure they will be happy to do this with an absentee owner but they have the resources to find them more easily than you.

By the way if you put it in a friends hole you are also flytipping and he is running an illegal tip!!!
w3526602
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Re: Fly tipping on private RoW

Post by w3526602 »

By the way if you put it in a friends hole you are also flytipping and he is running an illegal tip!!!

Hi Roblewis

Is that correct, if the stuff I am tipping is part of the landscaping of his garden?

Thinking about it, maybe I should suggest to my friend that it would be a good idea to apply for PP for a tennis court. I reckon it would take the best part of a 1000M3 to level such an area.

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Roblewis
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Re: Fly tipping on private RoW

Post by Roblewis »

YES

You can move soils around your OWN land but not from one ownership to another
Roblewis
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Re: Fly tipping on private RoW

Post by Roblewis »

Do not know the layout but if it does not interfere with other access you could quietly move your fence/gate along the path to a degree and so prevent further tipping. Once it has occurred others quickly find it and use it similarly. Absentee owners are a real problem when this happens as they are the ones legally liable to move the waste, but they can quickly appear when someone seems to challenge their ownership.

If you do "enclose" the area you can treat the waste as your own and take it piecemeal to a local authority tip.
w3526602
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Re: Fly tipping on private RoW

Post by w3526602 »

Do not know the layout but if it does not interfere with other access you could quietly move your fence/gate along the path to a degree and so prevent further tipping.

Hi Rob(?)

That's somewhere that I currently do not wish to go.

If you do "enclose" the area you can treat the waste as your own and take it piecemeal to a local authority tip.

My "Prime Suspect" has told me, that the bloke at the council owned amenity site told him, that residents are allowed to dispose of THREE sacks of stuff (rubble/soil/etc) for free, each year. After that, there will be a punitive charge - I think he said £40. You have to show proof of identity and address. He didn't mentioned if the guard was armed. My nearest amenity site is about 15 miles away, and I have to drive past amenity sites serving the next council.

You can move soils around your OWN land but not from one ownership to another.

Does it have to be the same piece of land? Can I buy a few M2 from my mate? He's got close on four acres.

I find what you say is difficult to comprehend. My mate can buy 1000M3 of gravel, and spread it over his land for landscaping, but I cannot give him a single bucketful of rubble? How does that help the planet? It is tradional for householders to riddle the fire, and spread the cinders over the unmade lane outside there houses. (I wish they wouldn't) Does that make them liable to a huge fine?

Further up the lane from my garage, there are some huge puddles, say 15ft x 10ft x up to 4" deep. I understand that as I have a ROW through these puddles, I am entitled to maintain, but not improve, the surface. (The six-wheeled, 17,500kg MGW council refuse truck doesn't improve matters). I have taken another look at my pile of rubble, and feel that a lot of it could be barrowed up the lane, and dumped into these puddles. Is that likely to earn me a big fine?

Where does it end? Am I allowed to dig a plant out of my garden, and give it to my daughter to plant it in her garden?

Can you tell me where I can access the relevent legislation, preferably online?

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Roblewis
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Re: Fly tipping on private RoW

Post by Roblewis »

Environmental Legislation is a minefield when it comes top waste management. It is under the Environmental Protection Act 1990 and the Hazardous Waste Regulations 2005. You can google for these and they come up usually on the opsi.gov.uk site. Basically all waste materials are controlled, the definition of waste is very wide ranging, and must be handled as set out in EPA 1990 and the associated regulations. In general waaste is anything that the current owner defines as being waste and/or is something that is of no further use for him/her. Remember we are talking trans european community legislation here.

Technically placing fire ashes is flytipping and it does depend on your local EHO if they enforce. You can of course purchase materials from a recognised supplier and fill in holes but that is not a waste disposal process. No you cannot use t6he purchase subterfuge as I seem to remember the European Court has already set a decision on this.
w3526602
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Re: Fly tipping on private RoW

Post by w3526602 »

In general waaste is anything that the current owner defines as being waste and/or is something that is of no further use for him/her.

Hi Rob,

Having thought about this, discussed it with my wife, done a critical flowpath chart and a cashflow forecast, we had just decided that we needed this rubble to landscape our garden .... when my mate phoned begging us to give it to him. :D If we give/sell it to him before he collects it, then it is something that he wants, so isn't waste?

Somewhere in a 4x4 forum archives, there is a mail about this subject, but on a grand scale.

I'll try to stop now. Many thanks.

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arborlad
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Re: Fly tipping on private RoW

Post by arborlad »

Roblewis wrote:Environmental Legislation is a minefield when it comes top waste management. .
..........aint it just :)
You can of course purchase materials from a recognised supplier and fill in holes but that is not a waste disposal process.

................but the materials purchased may be a by-product of a waste disposal process :)
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
victor508
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Re: Fly tipping on private RoW

Post by victor508 »

When this legislation first came out i was told i had to get a licence, i said i am a small builder and all my waste is taken away in skips so they have the licence.

The reply i got was if you take 100 bricks to a job, use ninety and take the other 10 back to your yard, those ten are classed as waste and without a licence you can be prosecuted.

I have not been stopped yet so have saved £100 in licence fee's by ignoring this buls*it.

Victor.
Roblewis
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Re: Fly tipping on private RoW

Post by Roblewis »

Arborlad

Yes you can buy processed waste which is now a product from a licensed organisation. But if you want to get rid of something of this nature you do not want it is waste even if somebody else wants to buy it from you - Good isn't it :D :D :D :D. With dustbins you are exempt until the moment the council has collected the material and you can freely remove things from your own bin but once the council/contractor collect it then it has entered the waste stream and can only exit in certain ways. This is why eveerything in a council run waste amenity has to remain there until properly removed.

Victor

As long as you treat the materials seriously as returned to stock and use your own vehicles and have a stock area for such materials then the enforcers will have difficulty proving it is waste. A simple return to stock note with driver is enough. Be clear they are being returned by stacking them or keeping the materials in good order. Painters and plumbers etc do this every day of the week with paint, copper, fittings etc.

This is why I was paid much money at one time managing construction surplus/waste material streams :D
Last edited by Roblewis on Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
w3526602
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Re: Fly tipping on private RoW

Post by w3526602 »

Hi,

This is almost getting amusing.

I did some DIY improvements to my house. On completion, I was left with a brand new 8ft x 4ft sheet of insulated plasterboard. To big to store, not worth trying to sell .... transport makes it cheaper to buy new and have delivered. I am aware that plasterboard is hazaaedous waste So I cut this pristine £20 sheet up into 12" squares, loaded into my Daihatsu Hijet pickup (similar to Bedford Rascal). This is my dog's car, cos he spits (Saliva + Barking = 12-bore water pistol with Gattling capability :D ). His transporter box is strapped onto the load-bed.
Arrive at Council Amenity Centre. "You need a permit to bring waste in a commercial vehicle". So I ask for a permit. "Denied, thats trade waste!" Note, there would not have been a problem if I had arrived in a car or an estate. My car is a Mazda SUV Double-cab, which I assume is considered to be a commercial (Severn Bridge toll booths think it is). My wife's car is a small hatch back, bought new, and she wants to keep it that way, which is why the dog (Blitz) has his own car. Whatever, I did get rid of the plaster-board, by not strictly legal means
(somebody else took it to the amenity centre in his car. Nice bloke, I'd never met him before).

I take a daily shufti through Ebay. The whole wesite seems to be full of stuff that fits the description of "waste". IE - In general waste is anything that the current owner defines as being waste and/or is something that is of no further use for him/her. If you think about it in those terms, nobody could get rid of anything unless it went to somebody with a Waste licence, or was entitled to go into the household dustbin. I know longer need my cement mixer ........

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Mattylad
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Re: Fly tipping on private RoW

Post by Mattylad »

IMO the EA inspectors etc are abusing the waste management laws, I am sure that they were put in place to protect the environment - not prevent plumbers taking old fittings back home or builders taking rubble away.

These things are hardly likely to cause any environmental problems in the back of a van.
Any comments I give here are my own opinions, for legal advise check with a qualified solicitor.
Roblewis
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Re: Fly tipping on private RoW

Post by Roblewis »

It is a wonderful world. By and large private individuals trading such as toys, furniture, white goods, clothes, electronics, sports etc goods between themselves on auction sites and car boots are exempt but there are still grey areas. The European Court is very sticky with it though and their decisions are constantly tightening the noose. You may have heard about lead organ pipes being banned - not the case but was used by some people to make a fast buck by scaremongering. Treated wastes can be traded but even the term treatment is closely defined in court decisions. Sewerage sludge used to be dried and sold directly as fertiliser, the courts stopped this as they stated drying alone waas not sufficient treatment to change the character of the waste.

Anything that can be seen as a construction material is however treated with great suspicion by the authorities. I am not surprised your vehicle was refused and I know of many such instances, even trailers are a cue for suspicion in some places. Flytipping is a major cost issue for some local authorities and domestic waste flytipping is also increasing so the problem will continue to grow for anybody wanting to get rid of things.
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