Shed on an unadopted road

strikeforce2151
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Shed on an unadopted road

Post by strikeforce2151 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:50 pm

Hello,

We live on an unadopted road which runs past all the houses, at the bottom of the road we have a gate which allows me and our next door neighbor access to our back gardens. There is no other access to the garden expect going through the house.

Now the problem is the neighbor across the road has put a shed on our side of the road, next to our gate.Which is making it difficult to take large items past, i.e. wheelie bins. They have also strung a electrical cable from their property across the road to their shed.

We have spoken to the owner of the shed and they are refusing to move it.

I'm just wondering what the best action would be to take? Am i legally allowed to move the shed?

I've attached a picture to explain the situation a bit better.

Thanks in advance.
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despair
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Re: Shed on an unadopted road

Post by despair » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:20 pm

What an infernal cheek the neighbour has plus i bet the electric cable does not conform to Part P rules

I would move the shed myself and keep moving it till he learns some manners

robj191269
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Re: Shed on an unadopted road

Post by robj191269 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:47 pm

despair wrote:I would move the shed myself and keep moving it till he learns some manners
+1 - car trolley jacks make the job nice and easy :)

What the OP needs to do first is check who actually owns the unadopted road and also check their deeds to see if there is a right of way noted

strikeforce2151
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Re: Shed on an unadopted road

Post by strikeforce2151 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:24 pm

Thank you for getting back to me.

Just to give you a bit more information. the houses on our side are new builds and the one across the road (the person we are having issues with) was already built. Before the properties were built the land was just waste land, so they used it as they wanted.

Obviously they never purchased the land and someone else did and built houses here, since then they have had a bit of an issue with all the new owners. They have openly admitted to me that they have to right to put the shed there but are not moving it.

On our deeds it says we have to keep the right of way clear, however I don't know what their deeds say. I've done a search on the land registry but they were unable to find the owner.

Would you say I'm allowed to move the she at least over to their side of the road? Would it be worth me contacting the council or police (none emergency number) to report this?

I know it all sounds quite petty but its one of those things that really niggle at you.

Thanks again!

span
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Re: Shed on an unadopted road

Post by span » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:12 pm

Your two comrades Maguire & Patterson visiting in the middle of the night with half a litre of Esso's finest.......

hzatph
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Re: Shed on an unadopted road

Post by hzatph » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:26 pm

The shed needs removing as it is on the right of way. Write to them stating this and if they do not remove it then you will seek a court order (at their expense) to that effect.

starryfish
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Re: Shed on an unadopted road

Post by starryfish » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:27 pm

strikeforce2151 wrote:On our deeds it says we have to keep the right of way clear, however I don't know what their deeds say. I've done a search on the land registry but they were unable to find the owner.
Which of course is not an unreasonable thing.

However, what do your deeds say in terms of your access and use of the right of way.

If there is genuine provision in your deeds for access to your rear garden from the right of way, then technically you are allowed to choose your access points from the right of way, and there is case law to support this.

The other key questions are, who is the owner of the right of way, and how and by whom was any right of way determined.

You may not be able to find any deeds at the Land Registry of the neighbour if they have been there a very long time. It was not until 1990 that it became compulsory to register, and then only when it changed ownership.

If you you have a high degree of belief that the shed should not be there, and you can relocate with minimal damage, then you should be able to move it without fear of prosecution.

hzatph
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Re: Shed on an unadopted road

Post by hzatph » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:04 am

If there is a right of way over the land then there does not need to be an explicit obligation to keep it clear - the existence of the right of way is sufficient. So, you are entitled to require its removal. You do not need any stronger justification than you have a right of way over the land - that is sufficient in its own right. You do not need to say for what purpose or how you want to use it.

starryfish
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Re: Shed on an unadopted road

Post by starryfish » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:51 am

hzatph wrote:If there is a right of way over the land then there does not need to be an explicit obligation to keep it clear - the existence of the right of way is sufficient. So, you are entitled to require its removal. You do not need any stronger justification than you have a right of way over the land - that is sufficient in its own right. You do not need to say for what purpose or how you want to use it.
That is not strictly true.

If the item on the right of way is placed there by the owner, but still allows the right of way to be used within the terms of the deeds, then it does not need to be removed as it is not obstructing the defined function of the right of way.

Of course if the neighbour has no ownership of the land, then it would seem likely that he has no right to place the shed there at all, but unfortunately, that is probably a matter that the owner needs to deal with.

This is why we need to know exactly who owns the right of way, and exactly what it says with reference to the right of way in the OP's deeds.

strikeforce2151
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Re: Shed on an unadopted road

Post by strikeforce2151 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:53 am

Hi all,

Thanks again for your advice, it helps to know that they are in the wrong!

Would it be best to request it's removal via the local council / highway agency or would it be quicker to report it to the local police and see if they can request it's removal?

I would happy push the shed over to their side of the road, however I'm unsure whether or not they have drilled the shed into the floor... or if somehow they could come back and prosecute me for it...

Thank again!

EDIT: just noticed the post above, I'll find my deeds out this evening and post the information on here regarding the right of way. But the neighbor defiantly doesn't own the road.

mr sheen
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Re: Shed on an unadopted road

Post by mr sheen » Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:10 pm

strikeforce2151 wrote:Hi all,

Thanks again for your advice, it helps to know that they are in the wrong!
You can't be sure that he is in the wrong and even if he is you may not have the right to move it - you need more info

Would it be best to request it's removal via the local council / highway agency or would it be quicker to report it to the local police and see if they can request it's removal?
None of these agencies will be interested this is a civil dispute between you and him

I would happy push the shed over to their side of the road, however I'm unsure whether or not they have drilled the shed into the floor... or if somehow they could come back and prosecute me for it...

Thank again!

EDIT: just noticed the post above, I'll find my deeds out this evening and post the information on here regarding the right of way. But the neighbor defiantly doesn't own the road

Your deeds need to include a ROW since your house is new so has not obtained one via prescription. Details of your ROW are crucial here since if your ROW is only on foot and you can still get past the shed then only the owner of the road has the right to ask for the removal of the shed. Since you do not own the road your only legal interest in the road occurs if you have been granted a ROW over it in your deeds but beyond exercising your ROW, the use of the road by others is not under your control..

Roblewis
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Re: Shed on an unadopted road

Post by Roblewis » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:50 pm

It would be trifle odd not to have a RoW when the deeds clearly expect you to use it by stating that it must be kept clear. Can you approach the builder as he may hold ownership of the road. A small sum may get you a sale. In any case he may know of the RoW detais.

ukmicky
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Re: Shed on an unadopted road

Post by ukmicky » Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:56 pm

starryfish wrote:
hzatph wrote:If there is a right of way over the land then there does not need to be an explicit obligation to keep it clear - the existence of the right of way is sufficient. So, you are entitled to require its removal. You do not need any stronger justification than you have a right of way over the land - that is sufficient in its own right. You do not need to say for what purpose or how you want to use it.
That is not strictly true.

If the item on the right of way is placed there by the owner, but still allows the right of way to be used within the terms of the deeds, then it does not need to be removed as it is not obstructing the defined function of the right of way.Of course if the neighbour has no ownership of the land, then it would seem likely that he has no right to place the shed there at all, but unfortunately, that is probably a matter that the owner needs to deal with.

This is why we need to know exactly who owns the right of way, and exactly what it says with reference to the right of way in the OP's deeds.
The part above highlighted is not entirely accurate as the dominant tenant has a right to use all of the right of way .

If he cannot use all of the right of way at any time it is not deemed a substantial interference providing he can still perform the actions granted and any obstruction is not permanent. If a permanent obstruction is placed on the ROW the dominant tenant can take action to have the obstruction removed.
Any information provided is not legal advice and you are advised to gain a professional opinion

starryfish
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Re: Shed on an unadopted road

Post by starryfish » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:50 pm

ukmicky wrote:
starryfish wrote:
hzatph wrote:If there is a right of way over the land then there does not need to be an explicit obligation to keep it clear - the existence of the right of way is sufficient. So, you are entitled to require its removal. You do not need any stronger justification than you have a right of way over the land - that is sufficient in its own right. You do not need to say for what purpose or how you want to use it.
That is not strictly true.

If the item on the right of way is placed there by the owner, but still allows the right of way to be used within the terms of the deeds, then it does not need to be removed as it is not obstructing the defined function of the right of way.Of course if the neighbour has no ownership of the land, then it would seem likely that he has no right to place the shed there at all, but unfortunately, that is probably a matter that the owner needs to deal with.

This is why we need to know exactly who owns the right of way, and exactly what it says with reference to the right of way in the OP's deeds.
The part above highlighted is not entirely accurate as the dominant tenant has a right to use all of the right of way .

If he cannot use all of the right of way at any time it is not deemed a substantial interference providing he can still perform the actions granted and any obstruction is not permanent. If a permanent obstruction is placed on the ROW the dominant tenant can take action to have the obstruction removed.
It still isn't strictly true, it really does depend on the full circumstances. If a right of way is 30 feet wide, and there is a right for a vehicle to pass and re-pass, and the owner places a pile of bricks 5 feet wide at the side of the ROW, then I very much doubt anyone could bring a successful action to get the pile of bricks removed.

We still do not know what the OP's title deeds says, or who is the owner of the right of way is. If for example the OP only has the right to pass and re-pass on foot, then there is doubt about the chances of success, unless as the OP suggests there is a restriction of access to the garden, but again we do not know exactly what the title deeds say.

The bottom line is, until the OP supplies the details of the title deeds, then no one has any reasonable chance of giving the OP any sort of realist advice, we are all guessing in the absence of the full facts.

jonahinoz
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Re: Shed on an unadopted road

Post by jonahinoz » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:26 am

Hi,

Can this shed be considered "Permitted Development"?

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