right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

beeffyp
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right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by beeffyp » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:16 am

Hello everyone I'm hoping someone can help me, ive been browsing this site reading forums again and again but can't seem to understand why this is happening to us.
We purchased our house from the local council in 2005 after living here since 1996. Later on in 2005 the council transfered all their remaining houses to gateway housing association.
We are in a block of 4 houses us being in the middle, we have (had) a right of way over our neighbouring property over a path through their back garden. We have used this since 1996 and it has always been that way (previous neighbour advised us of this when we first moved in) she lived next door since she was a teenager she died aged 92 in 2004. We have had two more neighbours (tenants of gateway) since and they have been very good about it. We now have a new neighbour move in approx 5 weeks ago again a tenant of gateway and our life has become a nightmare. She refuses to listen and kept ringing the police every time I tried to explain to her that that is the way it is as per our deeds. We was then visited by gateway first to tell us we have no right to access their property, but then after showing them our title deeds they accepted and left, a few days later they came back unannounced telling us they are moving our Row to the bottom of the garden with a 6ft high fence to make it like an alleyway I said we would have to think about it as we have four children an extra large bin 3 recycle bins and I have bone disease witch limits my mobility and day to day activities. A few days later we had a visit from builders to measure up and we refused as we would have to use our patio area for bins and remove parts of it to accommodate a new gate, this would mean we would loose the only area in our back garden to get the sun at its peak and for the longest. anyway gateway then came back to us to hand deliver a formal objection letter stating that we have no right to access their property and and no right were granted in the transfer, and that we stop immediately. Gateway have padlocked the side gate and fenced off the side, our neighbour has also rested large flags against our gate to stop us from opening it. We have been threatened with violence intimidation from her partner and sons. Who coincidently works for gateway.
We have contacted the solicitor who did the conveyancing for us when we purchased the property , he has made contact with gateways solicitors and is suggesting we go for mediation. Gateway's solicitors are investigating the history and usage of our right of way.
All this is causing us so much stress my wife has been put on some tablets by her go and my anxiety and depression has resurfaces with a vengeance and is eating away at me.
I'm sorry if I'm unclear or if I don't make sense but any advise or help will be very greatly appreciated.
I have my deeds and gateway's deeds both says we can egress and regress on foot only anytime we wish. This applies to all the properties gateway own asper their deeds. Yet we are the only ones who are being treated like criminals. Wife is very down as I'm disabled and she's my carer we were and still are paying a mortgage on a house we bought lthinking it was something it wasn't. Something to leave our children for their future, sorry for going on and I hope we can sort this out.
Thanks in advance.
Rishy

duvet
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by duvet » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:58 am

beeffyp wrote: We have been threatened with violence intimidation from her partner and sons. Who coincidently works for gateway.
There's your problem.

Concentrate on using local council and police to have the RENTING neighbours evicted for anti social behaviour rather than trying to regain your ROW.
you own your house, the neighbours only rent. you'll prob need your other neighbours help though

oddly enough dig around and find out if the Gateway's employees tenancy agreement is dodgy, when contacting gateway make your complaints to its board members not with any local representatives.

have personal experience of a gateway tenant who worked for gateway being " antisocial" as they seemed to think all the normal rules of decent behaviour didn't apply to them and http://www.housing-ombudsman.org.uk/ helped move them on. They also rang up the police immediately over every single incident because the police assume that complainant is most likely to be the victim. (strikingly similar people you have living next door to you.....)

COGGY
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by COGGY » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:08 am

I have great sympathy for you. Neighbour problems can ruin family life. Have you thought of contacting your local councillor, your MP, citizens advice or your local paper? If you and your wife are both so stressed (understandably) do speak to your Doctor and ask for this to be noted on your records. It may help with evicting the neighbours from hell.

Have you checked your house insurance (I think you need to wait 6 months from your purchase) any credit cards which may include insurance. Even car insurance I believe may cover you. A long shot but worth investigating.

The advice to go to the top in Gateway is extremely good advice. It may be the local office is supporting the tenant without the approval/support of Gateway.

If you are threatened you need to contact the police. Do not be put off. I was refused a visit on one occasion and later received a visit and apology.

Finally please keep a record of every incident however small, with the date, name of any witness and name of others involved. It may be invaluable evidence. Good luck.

despair
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by despair » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:27 am

Sounds to me very much like these neighbours are out and out bullies ..........been there know the stress and angst and gut turning

I suspect they will refuse face to face mediation or even mediation itself which will play right into the OPs hands

The OP cannot as far as I am aware be forced to accept a change in position of the ROW
neither can the other neighbours

Get the local councillor , police , MP and even social services alongside and keep a very careful record of every single incident no matter how small

contact the ant social team too

Check very very carefully all mortgages /insurances because you may have Legal Expenses cover and not realise

beeffyp
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by beeffyp » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:32 pm

Thanks for your replies, we have been visited by the police on a number of occassion, the last time was when her 15 yr old son was shouting over calling me a mong and insulting us telling us to leave his mum alone, I told him in not so many words to grow a pair and have some manners and respect, when the police came they took our bins through her garden over our ROW and into the front and told us not to enter next doors property again, until dispute has been resolved.
Her partners family members are actually on the commity for gateway too.
Would it be better for us to get a court order asking them to remove all obstruction until dispute has settled and claim costs back from them.
I'm more inclined to go to court and sue for damages and costs, as I feel mediation and negociating are compromising what is on our deeds.
We have contacted our local councillor (one of 3) and he has asked the councils legal team to look into it. We already contacted the legal team in the first instance as it was they who processed our right to buy and they confirmed that gateway are in the wrong, that was 4 weeks ago.
We have also started an internal complaints procedure with gateway not getting anywhere as they are 'investigating the history of our ROW.
Would going down the court route be quicker to reinstate our ROW.
Would getting a specialist solicitor instead be better for us, as we would prefer a no nonsense approach.
Thanks again everyone.

Roblewis
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by Roblewis » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:03 pm

The arguement here is with Gateway. If the RoW is on both deeds then there is little investigation to take place simply write to them via your solicitor requiring that they keep the RoW unobstructed for your use as set out in your deeds. You should then formalise a complaint concerning their tenant as creating a nuisance by obstructing the RoW. There will be tenancy clauses re this matter that Gateway MUST enforce or be held liable.

As for the police istructing you to stay off the ROw the answer is a plain NO - simply tell them you are exercising your right under civil law and have committed NO criminal offence.

beeffyp
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by beeffyp » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:07 pm

Even though we have title deeds stating our right of way and on their deeds too? What's the point of having title plans if its not a statement of truth or fact, it clearly states that easement and row are transfered with the property, could they then also dispute who the title plans belong to? I though tp1 was a legal document showing who owns what and what's included with the property. Would the courts not look at title plans and deeds to determine who owns what and any restrictions that may be in force. I'm so so confused.
Thanks

despair
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by despair » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:04 pm

This all sounds like delaying tactics by Gateway and bullying by them and the neighbours

either way its effect on the OP will be horrendous even if the OP was in perfect health

This whole scenario smacks clearly of harassment and that is what the Police should be taking very seriously and dealing with

duvet
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by duvet » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:18 pm

it would be far better if you commenced proceedings against Gateway who are the landlords.

So her family are on the board - you can find their names very easily.


And don't get into pointless arguments with the tenants who will then call the police. you want them to be the antisocial ones not you.
don't even talk to them - just carry on using your ROW.

if you want no nonsence just write to the Chairman of Gateway and his legal representative

beeffyp
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by beeffyp » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:20 pm

Roblewis wrote:The arguement here is with Gateway. If the RoW is on both deeds then there is little investigation to take place simply write to them via your solicitor requiring that they keep the RoW unobstructed for your use as set out in your deeds. You should then formalise a complaint concerning their tenant as creating a nuisance by obstructing the RoW. There will be tenancy clauses re this matter that Gateway MUST enforce or be held
Aswell as our neighbour, gateway have also provided her with padlocks to stop us from using our right of way. Gateway are apparently advising their tenant (my neighbour) that we do not have row. So its both gateway and their tenant who are causing a nuisance.

I would like to thank everyone as all this support and advise is making us feel a little settled i suppose a problem shared is a problem halved.

Thanks

beeffyp
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Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:20 pm

Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by beeffyp » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:40 pm

duvet wrote:it would be far better if you commenced proceedings against Gateway who are the landlords.

So her family are on the board - you can find their names very easily.


And don't get into pointless arguments with the tenants who will then call the police. you want them to be the antisocial ones not you.
don't even talk to them - just carry on using your ROW
They have blocked our gate from their side with flags leaning on our gate and fenced off the accessway at the other end and padlocked it. Impossible to even to try.
Both properties on either side of us belong to gateway, we errected 6ft high fence on both sides at our expense replacing old rotted and brocken panels and posts and this is the thanks we get. Neighbour on the otherside is with us on this, she has lived there over 40 yes and confirms it has always been a right of way. She is a gateway tennant Who has a row over land on the end house which is private. This means gateway can access other peoples property to excersise their row, but won't let us access our right of way through their property. One rule for them and another for us. :cry:

COGGY
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by COGGY » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:55 pm

As well as recording every incident, confrontation with the neighbours, ask the police for the incident number each time you have to call them, it will be a different number each time. If you do not have previous incident numbers then phone and ask for them. Log everything very carefully. Neighbours like yours are likely to lie. If so you can produce your book of recorded incidents, dated. If you end up in court this will be extremely useful.

You can also request the police to record that you must be visited each time there is a need to call, with some urgency. I would not normally advise you to play on your health, but in this case it may be a help. Involve your Dr and inform the police of your health problems. They may not take any notice but record when you told them. You need to have a record of everything.

stufe35
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by stufe35 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:12 pm

In any civil action you must not decline an offer of mediation....it is the first step before going to court. If you refuse, the court if you get that far will take a dim view.

Sounds like in your case it would be the end of the matter as it sounds like you are wholly in the right, and once your neighbours realise this they will back down, Though this is difficult when violence/ threats are present and you have to go through their land.....god knows I've been their and still am.

The first step is to determine if your right of way is legally valid and correct. Can you post the wording , there are some good people on this forum who will clarify that for you.

Once that is established you can write a clear letter telling them your rights and what they are not allowed to do. In this case copied to gateway and the police.

Give them a time reasonable time frame to clear the obstructions after which you will arrange it but any damage or loss will be their liability.

Your solicitor should have been able to confirm or otherwise the right of way, and seems to me has wimped out telling you to go to mediation. Get advice from a specialist rights of way solicitor. Il say that again. ....a specialist right of way solicitor. It's everyday solicitors writing half baked easements into all our deeds which give us the problems you have detailed. Then we have to pay them again to sort out the mess they've left.....sorry no offence intended to all those good solicitors out there but just had to have a little rant!

duvet
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by duvet » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:35 pm

beeffyp wrote:
duvet wrote:it would be far better if you commenced proceedings against Gateway who are the landlords.

So her family are on the board - you can find their names very easily.


And don't get into pointless arguments with the tenants who will then call the police. you want them to be the antisocial ones not you.
don't even talk to them - just carry on using your ROW
They have blocked our gate from their side with flags leaning on our gate and fenced off the accessway at the other end and padlocked it. Impossible to even to try.
Both properties on either side of us belong to gateway, we errected 6ft high fence on both sides at our expense replacing old rotted and brocken panels and posts and this is the thanks we get. Neighbour on the otherside is with us on this, she has lived there over 40 yes and confirms it has always been a right of way. She is a gateway tennant Who has a row over land on the end house which is private. This means gateway can access other peoples property to excersise their row, but won't let us access our right of way through their property. One rule for them and another for us. :cry:

Once you have had a chat , or your household insurance solicitor has a chat, with Gateways chief of housing you will find out that Gateway had nothing to do with it.

And the tenant will disappear.

The loss of your ROW has reduced the value of your house, having antisocial neighbours has reduced the value of your house.
Guess who will have to you compensate you - should you move house?



not sure if you have the same "gateway" as us
http://gatewayhousing.org.uk/about-us/p ... 3,ART.html
http://gatewayhousing.org.uk/about-us/p ... 1,ART.html

but if it is the east London one, those should be your only correspondants.

I bet your neighbour is telling a fib about a relative on the board too. Ring up Gateways HQ and ask to talk to their head of housing , don't bother with one of the oily rags

but if they do have a relative who is pulling strings - mention misconduct in a public office, fraud, obtaining an advantage fraudulently or malpheasence.
(our one it turned out the employer of Gateway was subletting the house to her relatives, who weren't really her relatives just someone from "the church", who had never been on any waiting lists and someone was doing a fancy benefit fraud too)

you want to get rid of renting neighbours quick? think outside the box.
Last edited by duvet on Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

COGGY
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by COGGY » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:44 pm

That sounds like extremely good advice. It also made me laugh. Try it and you will probably be reporting that the neighbours have either backed down or moved. Our neighbours used to shout that we would go to prison! They say these things in the mistaken belief that they will be believed.

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