right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

despair
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by despair »

I agree you need a specialist ROW solicitor who probably needs to go for an injunction fast
Roblewis
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by Roblewis »

Get your solicitor to write clearly to gateway that a RoW recorded on the deeds is a valid RoW and they must now remove ALL obstructions. Next stepo is an injunction against gateway and name all directors also on the injunction. The courts will accept your deeds alone as a valid statement of RoW and Gateway ghas to prove the RoW does not exist. Be firm and insist on your right to pass. You are entitled to enter the RoW at either end and with sufficient muscle you can remove all matters blocking the RoW while the neighbour is out.

Note also that the council will potentially have some records of this RoW if it served as a public access also.
gardenlaw
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by gardenlaw »

Roblewis is right. The great strength of an injunction (through your local County Court by the way) is that if it is disobeyed the Judge has the power to gaol anyone who does not do what the Court has ordered or later breaches the order.
beeffyp
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by beeffyp »

I have made an appointment on monday with our (lame) solicitor to discuss mediation and other possible options which are available to us.
What I don't understand is why our solicitor has not yet mentioned injunction or court action against gateway, maybe Monday.
I'm certain now I will be asking solicitor to start court proceedings to get an injunction out against gateway to remove all obstruction. However will the courts not have a dim view applying for an injunction rather than mediation? Do we have to have mediation as we feel we may have to compromise or restrict our usage or be told we are being unreasonable, we just want what is rightfully and lawfully ours.
I have some wordings from deeds.
the transfer dated .......reffered to in the charges register was made persuantto part v of the housing act 1985 and the land has the benefit of and is subject to easements and rights specified and reserved in the said deed and the easements and rights specified in para2 of sch 6 of the said act. The transfer dated .......referred to in the charges register contains a provision as to boundary structures
the right to pass and repass at all times and for all purposes over and along any existing passageways upon neighbouring property that have hitherto been used by the buyer and laid out for the purpose of gaining access and egress to and from the property on foot only (in respect of routes designed to be used on foot) and with vehicles if designed for vehicles in common with the others entitled to share use of the same
if access and egress to the property cannot be obtained directly on to a public highway the right to pass and repass over any intervening land retained by the council to gain access and egress to the public highway by the same route and in the same manner as the buyer has used hitherto in particular but not Ltd to the route
all statutory easements over neibouring property that benefit the property
where the use of any means of access is shared between several persons those persons shall not unreasonably obstruct or hinder the full and free use of others entitled to use the same
the property is sold subject to all existing encumberences
the buyer indemnifies the council against all future liabilities arising directly or indirectly out of existing encumbrances
any persons excersing a right granted by or reserved out of the transfer to enter upon land of another for any purpose shall exercise that right at reasonable times and upon reasonable prior notice causing causing as little damage and inconvenience as possible and restoring any damage caused.

The above are extracts from our deeds and tp1.

Thanks for looking.
duvet
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by duvet »

I've looked and knowing you are in the right doesn't matter if you wont follow advice on how to solve it.

questions from your postings
We was then visited by gateway first to tell us we have no right to access their property did you get their names and check their ID?

"Gateway have padlocked the side gate and fenced off the side" - how do you know it was Gateway? name of their contractor who did this and check ID?

"he has made contact with gateways solicitors and is suggesting we go for mediation. Gateway's solicitors are investigating the history and usage of our right of way."
- letters to support this statement from either solicitor? knowing solicitors they are probably doing nothing until someone pays them to do it.

Her partners family members are actually on the commity for gateway too - really? that means that they can't get involved doesn't it.

We have also started an internal complaints procedure with gateway why internal complaints? internal complaints are for tenants who want a door repaired quickly. are neighbour disputes or harassment included in their complaints policy or do they have a separate procedure for that? the complaints procedure also gets put on hold if you even hint at legal proceedings. (then in 3 months you get a sorry out of time response)


you need to work out what is the actions of the landlord (gateway) and what are the actions of their tenants.or what are the actions of a tenant pretending to be the landlord.

I've really been here before
we've got a row of houses backing onto us run by gateway. (east London) there's been hassles but they lose the tenancies if there are too many complaints about them. (especially if the complaints are from police or fire brigade) why do you think tenants make sure they ring the police first!
despair
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by despair »

I totally agree
You need an injunction fast
You need to find a solicitor who will act and act fast
arsie
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by arsie »

Beefy, many solicitors don't really like/understand rights of way as they require brainpower to understand. We used to live in a row of old farm-workers cottages and even our country solicitors they never really 'got' them. In the end of terrace we had access to the road and, like you, there was a right of way across the back doors 'to pass and repass' for all the other houses. Written up proper and clear in all of our deeds going back 250 years. Likewise for the gardens and an old shared outhouse and outside loos. At least three different lots of rights of way and fun and games to unravel when we came to redevelop and build down the garden.

Mediation is all well and good and it is standard that the courts like you to try and settle before you go to court as it saves wasting court time if disputes can be settled beforehand. Solicitors are aware mediation should be attempted first. But YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT HERE (excuse the shouting) and there is no two sides to this. The deeds state there is a right of way so there is a right of way. They can't even move the right of way without full legal agreement of all parties.

The shortest advice you have been given - about taking out an injunction - is the best thing to do.

TELL YOUR SOLICITOR - don't hivver haver about!!
Roblewis
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by Roblewis »

Do not bother with wondering why your solicitor has not mentioned Injunction - simply tell him to do it NOW. The courts will accept that a clearly stated right can be upheld by an injunction prior to any later action. If you have good evidence of the RoW they will injunct. Remember the Landowner is Gateway and its directors NOT the tenant so injuct the company and the directors. Do a google search to identify their names and the head office/registerd address.

Do not relinquish this without a fight as it is a valuable asset to the property.
COGGY
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by COGGY »

You have received very good advice from the experts. Please follow it, very carefully. Please let us know when you have sorted it out and your right of way is clear to use again. Good luck.
arborlad
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by arborlad »

beeffyp wrote: , we errected 6ft high fence on both sides at our expense replacing old rotted and brocken panels and posts :
Were these your fences to replace?

Is the route of the ROW on the Title Plan, are there any existing paths that match that?

Were the new gates in the same location as the old ones?
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
beeffyp
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by beeffyp »

duvet wrote:I've looked and knowing you are in the right doesn't matter if you wont follow advice on how to solve it.

questions from your postings
We was then visited by gateway first to tell us we have no right to access their property did you get their names and check their ID?

"Gateway have padlocked the side gate and fenced off the side" - how do you know it was Gateway? name of their contractor who did this and check ID?

"he has made contact with gateways solicitors and is suggesting we go for mediation. Gateway's solicitors are investigating the history and usage of our right of way."
- letters to support this statement from either solicitor? knowing solicitors they are probably doing nothing until someone pays them to do it.

Her partners family members are actually on the commity for gateway too - really? that means that they can't get involved doesn't it.

We have also started an internal complaints procedure with gateway why internal complaints? internal complaints are for tenants who want a door repaired quickly. are neighbour disputes or harassment included in their complaints policy or do they have a separate procedure for that? the complaints procedure also gets put on hold if you even hint at legal proceedings. (then in 3 months you get a sorry out of time
Yes we checked names and ID. It was the police who informed us that gateway have supplied neighbour with a padlock and that they (gateway) have told the neighbour to block our path off completely. It was her partner who has fenced off the path and as it happens they have attached their fencing to my fence on their side cheeky sods.
In order for me to take my complaint to the ombudsman and for them to investigate gateways action i have to start a complaints procedure with gateway first however instead of them looking into my complaint they have told me that once mediation has resolved the issue there wont be anything to complain about. I know, how do you think I feel.

Aborland
the fence we replaced was broke and rotted and unsafe, we contacted gateway who told us to replace it if we wanted to but they have no monies allocated for fencing and will not be contributing to the cost,
The plans do not show the route of the row but there is a path from our property that runs around the back and side of the neighbours property which is the row in dispute and the new gate is in the same location as its always been.

Mondays appointment is going to be interesting as I will tell my solicitor to shove the mediation up gateways jacket and go for an injunction at the earliest opportunity.

Thanks again everyone.
despair
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by despair »

Tell your solicitor that included with the injunction must be a claim for all your costs
Because gateway know full well you have a legal row and they have deliberately blocked it
Do have the police statement that gateway provided the padlock in writing
Take lots of photos from any possible angle too
COGGY
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by COGGY »

Do you have the incident number for the police visiting and taking your bins through the next door garden? If not please phone them over the weekend, early tomorrow, and get this number to give to yoour solicitor. Give them (police) exact date and time when they visited so they can check their records.
Roblewis
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by Roblewis »

Again Injunct, Injunct Injunct - do it next week as this is an illicit attempt to close a RoW. There is no mediation possible as there is or there is not a RoW you cannot have half a RoW. You are entitled as I have said to access the Row from the other end and remove carefully all obstructions, ideally the injunction should give them 5 working days and then you are free to act - leave them on the Gateway property. Do this after the injunction deadline and show the Court document to the police when they arrive, PCSOs are a pain but simply tell them this is a civil matter and you are acting under a court injunction.

Do not mess around with mediation this will only stiffen their resolve to play heavy tactics.
arsie
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Re: right of way on title register not accepted and blocked

Post by arsie »

Roblewis wrote:Again Injunct, Injunct Injunct - do it next week as this is an illicit attempt to close a RoW. There is no mediation possible as there is or there is not a RoW you cannot have half a RoW. You are entitled as I have said to access the Row from the other end and remove carefully all obstructions, ideally the injunction should give them 5 working days and then you are free to act - leave them on the Gateway property. Do this after the injunction deadline and show the Court document to the police when they arrive, PCSOs are a pain but simply tell them this is a civil matter and you are acting under a court injunction.

Do not mess around with mediation this will only stiffen their resolve to play heavy tactics.
Beefy, this from Roblewis is what you must do. Don't let anyone bully you not least the solicitor who you are paying!
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