deed of variation

boeingman
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Re: deed of variation

Post by boeingman »

The planners will not be the least bit interested. If d and sil build the extension in accordance with the submitted plans, that will be all that they are interested in. It is just possible, though unlikely, that if the extension was built a court could order it to be demolished, but they are more likely to order a reroute of the ROW.

If they do go ahead then d and sil will find themselves as the bullying neighbours riding roughshod over next doors rights and will no doubt be the subject of outpourings of ire on this website. If you do a quick search you will find a number of posters in a similar position to d and sil's neighbours, universally bemoaning the fact that there is really not a great deal they can do about it.

Regarding the craziness of the neighbours having rights over your land, Pilman will be able to explain it properly, but you own a legal interest in the land - you have title, and the neighbours also have a legal interest in the land - they have a ROW. Both interests equally important, and in some cases the ROW is the stronger interest.
barbara h
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Re: deed of variation

Post by barbara h »

boeingman wrote:The planners will not be the least bit interested. If d and sil build the extension in accordance with the submitted plans, that will be all that they are interested in. It is just possible, though unlikely, that if the extension was built a court could order it to be demolished, but they are more likely to order a reroute of the ROW.

If they do go ahead then d and sil will find themselves as the bullying neighbours riding roughshod over next doors rights and will no doubt be the subject of outpourings of ire on this website. If you do a quick search you will find a number of posters in a similar position to d and sil's neighbours, universally bemoaning the fact that there is really not a great deal they can do about it.

Regarding the craziness of the neighbours having rights over your land, Pilman will be able to explain it properly, but you own a legal interest in the land - you have title, and the neighbours also have a legal interest in the land - they have a ROW. Both interests equally important, and in some cases the ROW is the stronger interest.
Thank you - it's just frustrating that there is no sort of arbitration to agree a sensible solution:( it is their way of stopping d and sil building an extra much needed bedroom which will only make the house mirror theirs. The reroute is 7 meters further to walk to take their bin - which is all they use it for. We take it back to the gate for them.

My only worry if they started building is that she may get an injunction to halt the build. Her father is an architect and between them are quite savvy on their rights. I just wish they would agree to the reroute.

Thank you
despair
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Re: deed of variation

Post by despair »

Taking their bin back for them sure needs to stop
Co operation works both ways
barbara h
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Re: deed of variation

Post by barbara h »

despair wrote:Taking their bin back for them sure needs to stop
Co operation works both ways
Yeah, it's just the kind of girl my daughter is!

I think she is losing her kind streak with them, she can't see a way forward in a house that won't sell because all feedback said fab, but the bedrooms are too small. 2bedrooms that you can't walk around beds in is just not saleable. They have tried,

with a 2 year old, a new baby and a teen stepson at weekends a third bedroom would make the world if difference to their life.

We can hope the neighbours have a kind streak too and agree eh? :)
Conveyancer
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Re: deed of variation

Post by Conveyancer »

It appears from what you say that there has been no change in the route of the right of way. Even if there has, the fact that the extension was built more than 20 years ago means that in any event a new right would have been acquired by long user. It seems therefore that there is no leverage available.

A right of way is as much part of someone's property as the buildings on it. Ignoring (since it is not relevant here) that rights may be implied, when land is sub-divided the parties agree what rights are needed for the land sold and the land retained. When either the land sold or land retained changes hands the new owner takes it with notice of the rights to which it is subject. What your son-in-law inherited was not "a property" but "a property-subject-to-a-right of way". He has no more right to build on the route of the right of way than he has to build on his neighbour's land. Although I appreciate you may not see it that way, no court, tribunal or mediation procedure should be allowed to vary a right of way to suit someone's convenience any more than it should be allowed to award someone a piece of their neighbour's land because they will make better use of it. Saying that you wish the route of a right of way was in a different position is just like saying you wish you had more land.
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barbara h
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Re: deed of variation

Post by barbara h »

Conveyancer wrote:It appears from what you say that there has been no change in the route of the right of way. Even if there has, the fact that the extension was built more than 20 years ago means that in any event a new right would have been acquired by long user. It seems therefore that there is no leverage available.

A right of way is as much part of someone's property as the buildings on it. Ignoring (since it is not relevant here) that rights may be implied, when land is sub-divided the parties agree what rights are needed for the land sold and the land retained. When either the land sold or land retained changes hands the new owner takes it with notice of the rights to which it is subject. What your son-in-law inherited was not "a property" but "a property-subject-to-a-right of way". He has no more right to build on the route of the right of way than he has to build on his neighbour's land. Although I appreciate you may not see it that way, no court, tribunal or mediation procedure should be allowed to vary a right of way to suit someone's convenience any more than it should be allowed to award someone a piece of their neighbour's land because they will make better use of it. Saying that you wish the route of a right of way was in a different position is just like saying you wish you had more land.

I'm learning a lot lately. Never had any dealings with ROW issues before.

I understand what you say but I fail to see what harm a variation in the routing could do, especially when they have been lucky enough to do a similar extension to their home. We don't want to deny them a Row, merely move it a little to make an impossible living situation easier. They are aware how small the only 2 bedrooms are - 7 foot 6 x 7 foot for one and the other is 6 feet by 9 for 2 adults and 2 children (3at weekends)

i just think It would be nice if they could be selfless and agree to a reroute.

Thank you all for your responses and guidance :) much appreciated
barbara h
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Re: deed of variation

Post by barbara h »

Just an update in this. The local authority have granted planning permission, next step is a letter from solicitor notifying them of that and formally asking for agreement to re route the ROW. Not overly confident but hoping they may agree now that planning have agreed.

Wish them luck!

Plan b is to tell them it will be built on stilts, or whatever the term is. I can see me having party wall questions next !!!

Don't tell me they have all the ace cards for that as well!!
despair
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Re: deed of variation

Post by despair »

You are going to need to well read up on Party Wall Act too because they could cost plenty with that too
ukmicky
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Re: deed of variation

Post by ukmicky »

Building an extension does not automatically mean you will need to send a party wall notice or involve your neighbours.

Read this http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/40/contents and If after reading it you have any questions please come back.
Any information provided is not legal advice and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
barbara h
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Re: deed of variation

Post by barbara h »

The Party Wall act was another mention the neighbour's threw into the equation when they initially objected to the planning. Since then my son in law had the plans revised and came in a bit over a metre from the party wall on the advice of the solicitor. He has been advised that because of that he doesn't need to serve a notice.

Anyway, that's another obstacle, for another day, let's get the ROW move agreed first (if we can) then get to the next fence in the hurdles race. If we get that sorted, that is when I will be asking more questions :)

Of course, If I do get the lucky numbers up on Tuesdays lottery I will be buying my daughter and son in law a dream house with no immediate neighbours. As for the current house, I would find the neighbours from hell and let them live in it rent free!! The stress these girls have caused is just not funny. :evil:
barbara h
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Re: deed of variation

Post by barbara h »

Thank you all again for your invaluable advice.

Planning - approved
ROW variation - awaiting response/agreement from neighbours
kipper
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Re: deed of variation

Post by kipper »

Hope you can negotiate something, Good luck.
ukmicky
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Re: deed of variation

Post by ukmicky »

The Party Wall act was another mention the neighbour's threw into the equation when they initially objected to the planning. Since then my son in law had the plans revised and came in a bit over a metre from the party wall on the advice of the solicitor. He has been advised that because of that he doesn't need to serve a notice.

Anyway, that's another obstacle, for another day, let's get the ROW move agreed first (if we can) then get to the next fence in the hurdles race. If we get that sorted, that is when I will be asking more questions :)
Yes it will be another hurdle as its incorrect

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upload ... ooklet.pdf

Read this . all of it
Any information provided is not legal advice and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
arsie
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Re: deed of variation

Post by arsie »

ukmicky wrote:
The Party Wall act was another mention the neighbour's threw into the equation when they initially objected to the planning. Since then my son in law had the plans revised and came in a bit over a metre from the party wall on the advice of the solicitor. He has been advised that because of that he doesn't need to serve a notice.

Anyway, that's another obstacle, for another day, let's get the ROW move agreed first (if we can) then get to the next fence in the hurdles race. If we get that sorted, that is when I will be asking more questions :)
Yes it will be another hurdle as its incorrect

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upload ... ooklet.pdf

Read this . all of it
Micky, 42 pages - give us a few clues! What is incorrect and relevant to this situation?
ukmicky
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Re: deed of variation

Post by ukmicky »

nothingtodowithme wrote:I agree; care to elaborate?
i could and was very tempted ,however as i have already supplied the nessesary reading material to the OP where the answers can be gained ,why should i .
WIth somethings it is also extremely important to read up and get a basic understanding of the law your self so you do not have to totally trust and rely on answers from others

Plus as i have already posted the below comment and therefore the OP is aware that they can ask questions once they have read through the material if they still have questions i do not feel any need to elaborate just yet.
Read this http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/40/contents and If after reading it you have any questions please come back.
Any information provided is not legal advice and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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