House Sale States a Right of Way

House Sale States a Right of Way

Postby Viking44 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:21 pm

The house next door has gone up for sale. On the details listed by the estate agent it states: "... and a gate giving pedestrian access with right of way via the neighbouring garden".

We have never been aware of this right of way (ROW) but the neighbours have used the rear garden gate which joins the 2 properties and go across our garden to take out bins on bin day and for the odd day when carrying large items into the back door of the house. No issues with this, but would like to know where we stand with the new neighbours who will have read the advert and perceive that they have a RoW over the our land.

Our deeds don't mention this RoW nor do the deeds for next door.

Ours does say this but I dont really know what it means: "IT IS HEREBY AGREED AND DECLARED that the walls dividing the property hereby conveyed from the adjoining property Number ********* of ****** Road in ************ aforesaid are party walls and shall henceforth be repaired and maintained accordingly and that all rights easements quasi-easements or privileges in the nature of air light support way drainage or otherwise now used and enjoyed or intended to be used and enjoyed by over or in common with the property hereby conveyed and the adjoining or neighbouring properties now or formerly belonging to the Vendors shall continue to be so used and enjoyed and be forever hereafter upheld and maintained accordingly."

Does this mean they have a RoW?

Thanks for your comment in advance.
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Re: House Sale States a Right of Way

Postby Eliza » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:22 pm

That raises a lot of questions beside what that wording means:

1. Why did you assume your neighbours were crossing your garden? Did you think "I must have given them permission to do so personally and then forgotten about it and that's why they are doing it"?

2. Why did you think there was a gate in place there they could use to do this?

3. How long have they been doing this for?
Apologies for not giving exact personal details in my posts - you never know who is reading....
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Re: House Sale States a Right of Way

Postby span » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:22 pm

What would happen if you stopped up that gate?
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Re: House Sale States a Right of Way

Postby jonahinoz » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:54 pm

Hi,

The mention of a RoW looks like it is going to lead to a dispute, which is the last thing your neighbours want if they are trying to sell their house.

How long have you lived in your house ... eg: how long have you been not objecting to your neighbours using this RoW? Maybe the previous occupier of your house gave permission to your neighbours ... or their predecessors. Permission given can be withdrawn. I believe such permission self-cancels when either the permitter, or permittee, move away. ??? Proving that permission was given may be difficult.

I don't know if it's relevant, but who is responsible for that fence, and therefore (probably) the gate. Which way does it swing? If it is your gate, it suggests that your predecessor "performed an act" giving his neighbour the facility to cross your garden. I don't know if that equates to giving permission.

John W
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Re: House Sale States a Right of Way

Postby alyson » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:25 pm

What do the neighbour’s title deeds say?
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Re: House Sale States a Right of Way

Postby Viking44 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:16 pm

Answers to your questions:

Neighbours deeds have no mention of access at all. The red perimeter boundary on the deed mapping just shows their boundary and no access path, I have another terraced property which has access across a garden and its shown on the deeds as a dotted red line and is written on the deeds saying it has allowable private access.

Its our fence, we erected it 11 years ago and are responsible for its maintenance it was put up when a previous neighbour was in the house next door, by mutual agreement so they and we could have a private garden, Before this there was no fence at all but we put a gate in the new fence so bins could be bought out etc. nothing written down and the house next door has changed handed twice since.

It opens into the garden next door.

We have been in the house for 14 years.
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Re: House Sale States a Right of Way

Postby despair » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:11 pm

is there just your house and the neighbours ?
how long has the neighbouring house had access thru your garden
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Re: House Sale States a Right of Way

Postby Viking44 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:00 pm

despair wrote:is there just your house and the neighbours ?
how long has the neighbouring house had access thru your garden


there used to be a route out the back of all the houses (6 in total) but all the others have put up fences now to block it off, some with gates some without. Access has been there for a while, at least as far back as I know - the houses are c.160 years old!
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Re: House Sale States a Right of Way

Postby despair » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:15 pm

Then i think you will find that one of the houses does indeed have a ROW on the deeds and
this applies to all of the houses and they have no right to have fenced it off neither can the gates be locked
it should really be on everyones deeds but often its only on the lead house so you need to download from Land Registry official site a copy of all the deeds
the only way to remove a legal ROW is for all parties to agree and for all the deeds to be legally changed
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Re: House Sale States a Right of Way

Postby Viking44 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:12 am

despair wrote:Then i think you will find that one of the houses does indeed have a ROW on the deeds and
this applies to all of the houses and they have no right to have fenced it off neither can the gates be locked
it should really be on everyones deeds but often its only on the lead house so you need to download from Land Registry official site a copy of all the deeds
the only way to remove a legal ROW is for all parties to agree and for all the deeds to be legally changed



I have the deeds from Land Registry for all 6 houses and no RoW is stated or mentioned on any of them.
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Re: House Sale States a Right of Way

Postby ukmicky » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:33 am

Viking44 wrote:
despair wrote:Then i think you will find that one of the houses does indeed have a ROW on the deeds and
this applies to all of the houses and they have no right to have fenced it off neither can the gates be locked
it should really be on everyones deeds but often its only on the lead house so you need to download from Land Registry official site a copy of all the deeds
the only way to remove a legal ROW is for all parties to agree and for all the deeds to be legally changed



I have the deeds from Land Registry for all 6 houses and no RoW is stated or mentioned on any of them.



Express easements are noted on deeds ,Implied easements are normally not .
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: House Sale States a Right of Way

Postby Viking44 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:55 pm

now heard back from a legal adviser who believes that it is down to the new neighbor to prove the right of access and that with nothing on the deeds it is unlikely to ever be proven and the previous RoW does not pass down from owner to owner unless it is a written agreement. :)
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Re: House Sale States a Right of Way

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:06 pm

Viking44 wrote:now heard back from a legal adviser who believes that it is down to the new neighbor to prove the right of access and that with nothing on the deeds it is unlikely to ever be proven and the previous RoW does not pass down from owner to owner unless it is a written agreement. :)
you need to seek advice from a sols who specialises in land law as the above in bold is not just bad advice - it’s wrong
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Re: House Sale States a Right of Way

Postby Collaborate » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:11 am

MacadamB53 wrote:
Viking44 wrote:now heard back from a legal adviser who believes that it is down to the new neighbor to prove the right of access and that with nothing on the deeds it is unlikely to ever be proven and the previous RoW does not pass down from owner to owner unless it is a written agreement. :)
you need to seek advice from a sols who specialises in land law as the above in bold is not just bad advice - it’s wrong


+1
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Re: House Sale States a Right of Way

Postby pilman » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:12 pm

all rights easements quasi-easements or privileges in the nature of air light support way drainage or otherwise now used and enjoyed or intended to be used and enjoyed by over or in common with the property hereby conveyed and the adjoining or neighbouring properties now or formerly belonging to the Vendors shall continue to be so used and enjoyed and be forever hereafter upheld and maintained accordingly.
That clause was inserted in a conveyance of one of the houses in this terrace.
The worlds imply that many or all of the houses were at one time owned by a single person.
"the adjoining or neighbouring properties now or formerly belonging to the Vendor"

The words used were "catch all" phrases to identify the fact that rights existed that would continue to exist after each property was sold to a separate owner.
"air, light, support, way, drainage or otherwise" There is a mention there regarding rights of way and when a terrace of houses were erected 160 years ago it was the most common requirement that access to the back gardens was essential when coal deliveries were needed regularly. No one designed terraced houses where coal was delivered through the front door.

Whoever gave the advice you mentioned failed to point out that there is quite a comprehensive list in the deeds of what rights are likely to exist.
A right of support because a party wall holds up each house on each side of those walls.
A right of drainage where the sewers probably run from one garden to the next until the sewer joins the main sewer.

There is a site called old-maps.co.uk that you may want to look at.
It contains copies of the Ordnance Survey maps from the 19th century up to present times.

My guess would be that the early maps at a scale of 1;2500 will provide enough detail to show the back passageway that provided a right of way to the back garden of every house in the terrace.

It is the 21st century curse of selfishness why so many of these old passageways are now blocked off and included into the gardens of people who have no interest in neighbourliness, as was much more normal many years ago.
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