Signage on Easement

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pandabear1
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Signage on Easement

Post by pandabear1 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:04 am

Hi
I have an easement to my landlocked property down a long country driveway. Mine is the only property on the driveway, apart from the servient house, and my house is not visible from the road.
The servient property owns all the land down to the main road - there is no verge owned by the Highways/Council and there is an agreement that we are both responsible for the upkeep of the driveway. The servient property has just been sold and the new owner removed my house sign off the gateway due to "aesthetics". My sign is a A4 sized wooden sign and was on one of the wooden double gates. I have actually contributed to this gateway and the fence that allow us access onto the main road and have receipt and emails confirming this, however he says i am still not allowed to have a sign on any of his property due to his wife having a colour scheme that my sign does not conform to. I can however have a sign if i pay them for one that meets their new colour plans.

I have not pursued this but does anyone know if i have any rights to simply re-erect my sign, say on a post on the easement, as long as it is not in the way? Or shall i just throw it away and join in?

MacadamB53
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Re: Signage on Easement

Post by MacadamB53 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:00 am

Hi pandabear1,

does anyone know if i have any rights to simply re-erect my sign, say on a post on the easement, as long as it is not in the way?

I presume, because I think you would have stated otherwise, that the evidence you have - emails etc - show that the neighbour’s predecessor gave you permission to erect the sign rather than that he granted a right for your property to do so in perpetuity

so unless the neighbour’s predecessor had his buyer agree to honour the arrangement as part of the sale - which is doubtful - you have no right to re-erect your sign.

kind regards, Mac

Collaborate
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Re: Signage on Easement

Post by Collaborate » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:29 am

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi pandabear1,

does anyone know if i have any rights to simply re-erect my sign, say on a post on the easement, as long as it is not in the way?

I presume, because I think you would have stated otherwise, that the evidence you have - emails etc - show that the neighbour’s predecessor gave you permission to erect the sign rather than that he granted a right for your property to do so in perpetuity

so unless the neighbour’s predecessor had his buyer agree to honour the arrangement as part of the sale - which is doubtful - you have no right to re-erect your sign.

kind regards, Mac
Mac - you've just reversed the evidential burden of proof. Whilst the legal burden of proof rests on OP to show that the features for an easement are present (length of use, without consent etc) it's not for OP to prove a negative. Clearly if there are emails they should be disclosed, and that may well be an end to it. However assuming there is no evidence of consent, it is then up to the servient owner to prove consent.

Scrambler
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Re: Signage on Easement

Post by Scrambler » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:52 am

Eh ? why would the servient owner want to prove consent ?

Surely its irrelevant..the previous servient owner gave consent for something not covered by the easement. The new servient owner has with drawn that permission (perfectly within his rights) . The story ends ?

MacadamB53
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Re: Signage on Easement

Post by MacadamB53 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:05 pm

Collaborate wrote:
MacadamB53 wrote:Hi pandabear1,

does anyone know if i have any rights to simply re-erect my sign, say on a post on the easement, as long as it is not in the way?

I presume, because I think you would have stated otherwise, that the evidence you have - emails etc - show that the neighbour’s predecessor gave you permission to erect the sign rather than that he granted a right for your property to do so in perpetuity

so unless the neighbour’s predecessor had his buyer agree to honour the arrangement as part of the sale - which is doubtful - you have no right to re-erect your sign.

kind regards, Mac
Mac - you've just reversed the evidential burden of proof. Whilst the legal burden of proof rests on OP to show that the features for an easement are present (length of use, without consent etc) it's not for OP to prove a negative. Clearly if there are emails they should be disclosed, and that may well be an end to it. However assuming there is no evidence of consent, it is then up to the servient owner to prove consent.
que?

I’m saying that the OP would need to show that he has a right to attach a sign to his neighbour’s property - because owning a RoW doesn’t come with such a right and the only evidence the OP has disclosed thus far merely proves he got permission from his neighbour’s predecessor but this permission will not have automatically passed with the sale.

are you suggesting this is incorrect?

Volumiza
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Re: Signage on Easement

Post by Volumiza » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:36 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:
Collaborate wrote:
MacadamB53 wrote:Hi pandabear1,

does anyone know if i have any rights to simply re-erect my sign, say on a post on the easement, as long as it is not in the way?

I presume, because I think you would have stated otherwise, that the evidence you have - emails etc - show that the neighbour’s predecessor gave you permission to erect the sign rather than that he granted a right for your property to do so in perpetuity

so unless the neighbour’s predecessor had his buyer agree to honour the arrangement as part of the sale - which is doubtful - you have no right to re-erect your sign.

kind regards, Mac
Mac - you've just reversed the evidential burden of proof. Whilst the legal burden of proof rests on OP to show that the features for an easement are present (length of use, without consent etc) it's not for OP to prove a negative. Clearly if there are emails they should be disclosed, and that may well be an end to it. However assuming there is no evidence of consent, it is then up to the servient owner to prove consent.
que?

I’m saying that the OP would need to show that he has a right to attach a sign to his neighbour’s property - because owning a RoW doesn’t come with such a right and the only evidence the OP has disclosed thus far merely proves he got permission from his neighbour’s predecessor but this permission will not have automatically passed with the sale.

are you suggesting this is incorrect?
Not hijacking this intentionally but this is my point in my boundary fence thread Mac. Rights of way are one thing but signs and other articles left on fences along a right of way are very much another!

Vol

Ken1
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Re: Signage on Easement

Post by Ken1 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:46 pm

Not sure if i'm reading pandabear1's post wrong, but from what i'm reading it seems that the emails that pandabear1 refers to are not e-mails giving permission for the house sign to be on the gate but e-mails confirming that pandabear1 contributed to the gate and fence. Would this make a difference? Does pandabear1 need permission to put a sign on a gate that the contributed to?

Scrambler
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Re: Signage on Easement

Post by Scrambler » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:57 pm

As I see it he voulentarily contributed to the cost of the gate , but it is not his gate (or even part his gate) and it is not on his land. The gate has since been sold to a new owner. Its up to him who puts signs on it.

Ken1
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Re: Signage on Easement

Post by Ken1 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:36 pm

Hi Scrambler. What makes you think that pandabear1's contribution was voluntary? From reading the original post I can't tell what % pandabear1 made to the gate & fence. It seems like quite a formal arrangement as pandabear1 has a receipt. Does having a receipt make pandabear1 part owner of the gate & fence?

Scrambler
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Re: Signage on Easement

Post by Scrambler » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:42 pm

Well you have a point the wording of the maintenance agreement has not actually been posted, but it would be most unusual for it to contain a requirement to maintain the servient owners gate, it would usually be for wear and tear on the track. That's not to say it might. When the dominant owner contributes to the maintenance of the track he does not become the owner of part owner of it, so I think the same would apply to a gate. Of course I could be wrong.

Ken1
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Re: Signage on Easement

Post by Ken1 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:49 pm

Maintenance on a right of way is one thing, but paying towards the cost of a gate to the entrance is not maintenance. Could pandabear1 partly own the gate since they have a receipt for the gate?

MacadamB53
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Re: Signage on Easement

Post by MacadamB53 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:46 pm

Ken1 wrote:Maintenance on a right of way is one thing, but paying towards the cost of a gate to the entrance is not maintenance. Could pandabear1 partly own the gate since they have a receipt for the gate?
being in possession of a receipt does not in itself show that the OP owns the gate (and therefore the land it occupies).

the OP can clarify further, but he has already told us that he “contributed” towards the gate installation so I think it is reasonable to assume that he paid for some of the works and/or materials - maybe because he asked the owner to gate the drive and he said “sure, if you pay for it”.

even if he paid for it all in full this would not make him the owner - otherwise that would mean I’d own all the Christmas gifts I’ve got for my family and friends after they’ve opened them...

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