Developer wants to put new foul waste through my garden

jonahinoz
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Re: Developer wants to put new foul waste through my garden

Post by jonahinoz » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:35 pm

Thanks John W - I have gone right through the planning application and there’s nothing about drainage so have contacted Building Control to see if they can shed some light on this.

Hi George,

In any planning application I have submitted (fingers of one hand) I think there is a question about where the drains will go. Perhaps just "into publics sewers" will surfice? I'd expect to see a line on the plans.

I've read the term "Environmental Impact", which I assume translates into .... Open your wallet, and repeat after me, "Help yourself!". Could this be a suitable time to ask?

John W

George1988
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Re: Developer wants to put new foul waste through my garden

Post by George1988 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:04 pm

SB thanks for your reply, really helpful! Have been in touch with Developer Services and they have said that our drains have been modernised so they don't think there'd be any issues, but are going to send a technician out to check that what we have is sufficient for additional services.

John W thanks for your post - I have double checked off that back of your advice and there are no lines on the plans that are on the council portal, so am waiting for a call back from the planning office to confirm what was on the application.

I have spoken to the Project Manager today; the houses will be rented out not sold, so he assured me that the developer will be responsible for the new pipe, but I insisted that this would all have to be in writing and that we'd need a guarantee that responsibility would be written into the deeds of the houses should he ever sell them. He seemed happy enough with this and is going to discuss with the developer. He also informed me he'd be looking to put a 6 inch pipe not a 4 inch pipe through the garden, which was another of my concerns.

He actually seemed quite surprised when I mentioned compensation (!) - he asked what figure I'd be looking for and I said I'd be interested to know the cost of his alternative option and we can start from there. He is going to price this up and send me through the figures (providing the developer agrees to paying compensation). My family are all in the building trade so will be getting their opinions on whether the costs are representative before entertaining any offers.

despair
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Re: Developer wants to put new foul waste through my garden

Post by despair » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:16 pm

Be sure to get an independant drainage company to tell you what the cost of developers alternative roote would be

If the developer wants to put a 6 inch pipe in your garden and your outflow is a 4 inch one i would still be very concerned

I simply cannot possibly see that 7 houses can safey drain into your system

Plus renters often dont give a monkies what they throw down the looi and unsupervised children can create havoc

Just the fact that 7 houses have drainage rights through your garden in perpetuity will affect your house value

MacadamB53
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Re: Developer wants to put new foul waste through my garden

Post by MacadamB53 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:17 pm

Hi George1988,

Anglian Water have said they cannot guarantee at this stage if they'd adopt the new drainage pipe

because they will only adopt such drains if they meet specific standards - ergo if the drain does meet the standards they have a statutory obligation to adopt.

why not propose that a drain can be laid on condition that:

1. an expert is appointed by the local sewerage undertaker to assess whether any additional works would be required to integrate the proposed drain with the existing setup - paid for by the developer
2. any additional works identified must be included in the program of works for the proposed drain
3. the program of works must be completed by a contractor appointed by the sewerage undertaker - paid for by the developer
4. you are given a bond by the developer that is incrementally refundable - e.g:

if the developer decides to abandon the proposal and the program of works do not commence = 95% refunded
if the program of works commence and are completed by Date A (e.g. planned/expected completion date) = 40% refunded
if the drain has been adopted by Date B (x number of days after Date A) = 40% refunded
if the drain has been adopted by Date C (e.g. first anniversary of Date B) = 15% refunded

in this example if all goes well he gets 95% back.

kind regards, Mac

despair
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Re: Developer wants to put new foul waste through my garden

Post by despair » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:32 pm

MacadamB53

Why on earth should the developer get essentially free rights of drainage for 7 properties and the OP get zip

No one needs or wants all that upheavel just for the benefit of others and an effect on their house value too !

Collaborate
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Re: Developer wants to put new foul waste through my garden

Post by Collaborate » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:06 pm

despair wrote:MacadamB53

Why on earth should the developer get essentially free rights of drainage for 7 properties and the OP get zip

No one needs or wants all that upheavel just for the benefit of others and an effect on their house value too !
I don't think Mac is suggesting OP gives the right away. Just suggesting some helpful conditions of the grant.

jonahinoz
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Re: Developer wants to put new foul waste through my garden

Post by jonahinoz » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:12 am

Hi George,

Will the extended drains prevent any future development (extension, garage, etc) on your property?

I sounds like you have a big garden. Could it ever be a building plot? Is it worth asking the current developer to provide for an extra connection at some future date.

John W

arborlad
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Re: Developer wants to put new foul waste through my garden

Post by arborlad » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:26 am

George1988 wrote:SB thanks for your reply, really helpful! Have been in touch with Developer Services and they have said that our drains have been modernised so they don't think there'd be any issues, but are going to send a technician out to check that what we have is sufficient for additional services.


He also informed me he'd be looking to put a 6 inch pipe not a 4 inch pipe through the garden, which was another of my concerns.



Not quite sure what is meant by modernised, but you have a technician coming who should be able to tell you.

A 6" drain is probably adequate for the seven new properties but if your existing is 4" on both sides of the chamber, the connection wont be allowed.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

pilman
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Re: Developer wants to put new foul waste through my garden

Post by pilman » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:01 pm

if I understand the situation correctly another house already has a drain that enters the OP's property then the drain run continues to the next house along and then to the original sewer belonging to the drainage authority.

That would mean that since 2011 the drain run under the OP's property was statutorily vested in the ownership of Anglian Water.

That would mean the developer needs permission from Anglian Water to connect to their sewer which happens to be under private land owned by the OP.

If that permission is granted then the developer needs the grant of an easement to lay his pipes under the private land, which is when the question of compensation comes into play.

My daughter's new house was built in 2008 in the garden on an older property, which received the waste from the next house along. We connected into the drain run and all was well until last year.
This was when the neighbour's drain became blocked up.
The blockage was in the length of original pipe leading into what was now my daughters patio.

That was when Anglian Water informed my daughter that contractors would come to her property on a set date. They arrived and proceeded to dig up the patio to re-lay new sewerage pipes for the benefit of the next door property.

Two days of disruption when no one could use the garden, then a sloppy job of relaying the patio slabs ,that ultimately sank and had to be relaid months later at her own expense, served to remind her that it was not an ideal situation when the Government decided so many private drain runs were to become public sewers.

When deciding what compensation is needed, or whether to grant a right of underground drainage that will be eventually need to be adopted by Anglian Water, will need careful consideration, if 7 dwellings discharge their waste water into that sewer underneath a private garden.

Hugh Jaleak
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Re: Developer wants to put new foul waste through my garden

Post by Hugh Jaleak » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:46 pm

Very little that can be done to 'modernise' a drain other than lining it, alternative is complete replacement. As Aborlad has said, if the existing drain is only 4", then a bigger connection is not allowed, and I'd be very wary of adding a further 7 dwellings onto an existing drain of that vintage, unless I was completely sure it was in pristine condition and capable of taking the additional demand. If all goes horribly wrong, it's your property that gets the misery, sewage flooding is not nice, and if it all needs digging up and replacing?

It wouldn't be the first time a new connection has been made into an existing sewer, and problems have started. Been to one recently, an office block has been converted into flats, drainage bodged completely, and the Developer has conveniently done a runner.....

The Developer here is looking to maximise his profit margin. Personally, I'd be telling him to get lost, there is an alternative means of connection, he'll have to bite the bullet and pay to go into the road. That will have to be done by an AW approved contractor, so it will be right.

George1988
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Re: Developer wants to put new foul waste through my garden

Post by George1988 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:22 pm

Thank you all for your replies - I haven't updated this thread in a while as we have been back and forth with the developer.

The current situation is that Anglian Water have permitted linking in to our drains, as they are 6 inch pipes and able to support 7 additional houses. The developer has offered £1350 compensation plus a little landscaping work, and replacing the fence at the back of my garden. I personally feel this is not an offer worth entertaining, and the fence is only being replaced as their ground level is 3ft higher than ours since they've started building, so they are having to replace the fencing because we are a) overlooked and b) have land banked up against our old fence that will now probably collapse.

I am also concerned that there is a piece of established hedgerow in my garden which is full of songbirds and a well established food source for local wildlife, and he wants to put the drain right underneath.

Hoping this doesn't go to requisition!

Roblewis
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Re: Developer wants to put new foul waste through my garden

Post by Roblewis » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:22 pm

A height of 3 feet above your land requires a retaining wall plus fence, not simply a fence

despair
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Re: Developer wants to put new foul waste through my garden

Post by despair » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:28 pm

The very fact the developer has piled 3ft of soil against your fence proves his attitude to you

£1350 and a new fence when a really sound retaining wall is needed is an insult

Legal fees alone will be that to alter all the deeds

Tell him to stuff it

I would want at least £5000 plus a really good 2 metre wall the entire length

A darn good wall will be far better than a titchy retaining wall and a fence

George1988
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Re: Developer wants to put new foul waste through my garden

Post by George1988 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:30 pm

We’ve agreed to a wall with concrete posts, which is an improvement, but is definitely still a separate matter that they should be dealing with anyway independently of the drainage issue! They’ve proposed it will be 2.7m high our side so we need to find out what their final land height will be and whether that gives us privacy from their side.

I was thinking that £5k is a more reasonable figure so settle on if we do proceed?

Hugh Jaleak
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Re: Developer wants to put new foul waste through my garden

Post by Hugh Jaleak » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:53 pm

I'd be seeking an idea of the cost of a connection elsewhere into the road, and working out your price from that. £1350 is an insult, that probably wont even cover the cost of the materials if digging in the road and correct reinstatement. :shock:

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