gates swing.. out or in

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rensza
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gates swing.. out or in

Post by rensza » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:54 pm

I share an access driveway with my neighbour. Her drive continues straight on, my drive is adjacent on left. She has started work on installing gates, (there were none before)at the entrance to her drive. She intends to swing the gates outwards into the shared space,one of which will block vehicular access to my drive whenever its open. She did not inform or consult me, I only found out because I asked. She wanted to drill in the middle of my driveway for a securing point when the gate is open, I informed her that she did not have my permission, as technically I own that half of the drive (on the deeds) though in reality we both need all of it to pass a car through. I made it clear that I cannot accept her blocking my drive whenever she feels like it, and her response was that it would not be open very often. I've read of similar situations, and the consensus is that gates "should" open inwards onto your own property, but I've never read "must". Local council planners will not give me an answer. I know you cannot open a gate outwards onto a pavement or highway, but this is onto private land. I cannot afford lawyers. I'd welcome any advice.

siteone

Re: gates swing.. out or in

Post by siteone » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:49 am

Is there not room for the gate to slide across to another part of her property.

mr sheen
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Re: gates swing.. out or in

Post by mr sheen » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:56 am

This is a private civil dispute, the Council cannot advise or do anything about it if the highway isn't affected.

IT is better to try to resolve this amicably and get them to ensure that the gates do not obstruct your driveway at all BEFORE anything actually happens.

if you own the land on which the post is standing or if it interferes with your right of way, you can physically remove it....rather than doing this it would be wise to advise the neighbour of such right and intention if they proceed with their plan to put the post where they propose and try to get them not to put it there. You can also close the gate (which could even extend to removing it but this may be risky) if it interferes with your right of way.

You can explain these rights to the neighbour in an amicable manner and try to get them to change the plan emphasising that the matter could escalate if they interfere with your rights and you don't want that to happen so work with them and show willing to compromise to get something that suits both parties.

rensza
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Re: gates swing.. out or in

Post by rensza » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:18 am

The gate post is on her land. It is the "swing" and open position which is on my land.I have already made it clear I will not accept an obstacle across my drive.She has plenty of room in her drive to swing them inwards, she just wishes to take advantage of the space behind the gate, whilst still protecting her property . I can see that asking her to close it whenever it is open is likely to cause conflict in perpetuity , not to mention the precedent it will establish to any future owners. If she continues with her plan, can I simply remove her gate ?

IdefixUK
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Re: gates swing.. out or in

Post by IdefixUK » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:01 am

Hello rensza.
Can you post a little diagram of this situation showing the land ownership, position of the drives and proposed gate etc? Also the wording in the deeds of the properties as relating to rights of way over what you call the shared drive. Thanks.

Collaborate
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Re: gates swing.. out or in

Post by Collaborate » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:28 pm

A ROW does not give the dominant owner the right to swing a gate over the land in question. Swinging a gate open is not an act of moving from point A to point B so as to exercise a ROW.

rensza
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Re: gates swing.. out or in

Post by rensza » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:45 am

Thanks for your responses. Yes there's room to swing her gates inwards. Sorry, but Im afraid I dont understand what "dominant owner" means. Theres a line down the middle of the access drive, we have equal rights to. Also dont understand what "act of moving from A-B to exercise ROW" means.
The relevant bit of the deeds (its very long and written in legalese) states:
"full right and liberty in common with the owners/occupiers of the adjopining property at all times hereafter to pass and repass with or without private motor cars over and along the piece of land coloured green and yellow (the shared access drive) forming the site of a passageway for all purposes in connection with the occupation and enjoyment of the property"...
theres another bit further on about rights to dig the passagegeway for repairs to pipes and drains etc. which states:
"shall not unnecesarily interrupt or obstruct the said rights of passage
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rensza
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Re: gates swing.. out or in

Post by rensza » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:47 am

Forgot to say... I have added the red lines in the diagram to show where the proposed gates would be when opened.

liveinpeace
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Re: gates swing.. out or in

Post by liveinpeace » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:25 pm

there is a similar set up on a house near me, it was solved by installing a bi- folding gate.

stufe35
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Re: gates swing.. out or in

Post by stufe35 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:02 pm

Who owns the green and yellow land ? Where is your entrance ? The dominant owner is the owner of the property that enjoys the benefit of avright of way. The servient owner is the owner of the property that is burdened with a right of way over it.

Your deeds seem to give you a right of way over both the yellow land and the green land suggesting you don't own either. You don't need a right of way over land you own.

rensza
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Re: gates swing.. out or in

Post by rensza » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:53 am

My property is to the left of the diagram, the "green" side. Technically I own the green half, neighbour owns yellow side, but obviously we both have the right to drive a vehicle along it. The green side continues on into my driveway to the left. The red lines shows where the proposed gate would be in open position, which would block the entrance to my drive.

stufe35
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Re: gates swing.. out or in

Post by stufe35 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:56 am

If you own the green side why do your deeds give you a right of way over it, it doesn't make sense. Are you sure you own the green side ? If you did you would only need a right of way over the yellow bit.

arborlad
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Re: gates swing.. out or in

Post by arborlad » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:05 pm

stufe35 wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:56 am
If you own the green side why do your deeds give you a right of way over it, it doesn't make sense. Are you sure you own the green side ? If you did you would only need a right of way over the yellow bit.



I think this will explain it: "full right and liberty in common with the owners/occupiers of the adjopining property............
The arrangement is reciprocal, both can use it, neither can block it.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people

ukmicky
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Re: gates swing.. out or in

Post by ukmicky » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:10 pm

The courts have ruled A person can stop and unload a vehicle on a ROW so I doubt opening a gate onto right of way would go beyond grant.

Can they leave the gate open on the right of way ,no.

Why don’t you both together pay for gates further up to help secure both your properties.
Any information provided is not legal advice and you are advised to gain a professional opinion

rensza
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Re: gates swing.. out or in

Post by rensza » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:51 pm

I already have gates... mine open inwards ,as they should, though mine are mostly kept open for convenience.The issue is not the ROW along the shared access drive(the yellow and green bit).. its the issue of her gate completely blocking access to my driveway whenever it is open. If it were opened purely for vehicular access, and would block my driveway long enough to allow her car to pass thru and then was closed again, I accept there would be no difference to her car blocking the driveway for the time it took to open and close the gates if they swung inwards. The problem will be when she wishes to open both gates for whatever reason..e.g. to do work or repairs in her driveway or to load up in the shared driveway (already happens frequently) when I would have to ask her to close it, to allow my car through. I can see that could cause frustration on both sides, and I fear it will set a permanent precedent, not just with her, but with any future purchaser. Thank you for all your posts. Still not completely clear about my rights in law, but I think this has to be the end of the thread now.

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